Plumb Place. THE BULLSHIT CONTINUES
FFS.
This is my fourth post about the fabulous Plumb Place.
I keep having to do posts due to the scandalous nature of how the sale of the Plumb Mansion has been handled. I detailed this previously.
Last Friday, the mansion was finally listed on multiple listing service (MLS), which is the absolute standard for any property for sale.
Two days later I was told that an offer had been accepted.
After just TWO days of being offered for sale? This, in a hyper market where houses are routinely getting offers higher than the ask price?
AFTER JUST TWO DAYS?
But, I could not confirm this yesterday.
Today though, Monday, the website of the listing agent shows this:
Ummm, WTF does that mean? I had to Google it. Translation:
Right Of First Refusal
This means that, yes, there is an offer. If another offer comes in that is higher, the first offer has the option to match that price. If they do, they get to close the deal.
The $199,000 though is the ASK price. None of us know the actual offer price.
So, if Offer #1 is, say, $120,000, and a second offer comes in at $130,000, Offer #1 would have the option of meeting that price. If, then, Offer #2 raised their price to $140,000, Offer #1 would have the option of meeting that price.
And so on.
This is yet another example of how scandalous the sale of the Plumb mansion has been handled, IMO. In short, it seems that a poison pill has been inserted to help ward off not only just higher offers, but any offers. For, most people will assume that an offer has been accepted and that the sale is a done deal.
It is not.
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Eli Fowler can’t get the property rezoned for what he wants.
I’m hoping this might be Jarrod and Claire Hibler. Any way to tell if they are the ones that put in a bid?
I’m tempted to offer $210,000 just to see what happens, but I don’t want to force the Hiblers into a bidding war, just prevent Fowler from stealing and destroying this property.
There is already an appeal process underway regarding the zoning change being denied.
If Jarrod and Claire were the offer, I’m confident that they would have announced this.
My guess is that the offer is Eli.
The stink from Day 1 continues.
Just sent an offer of $200,000 cash contingent on my home refinance as it would take me a few weeks to get that done. Either whoever it is will offer more, someone else will offer more or I’ve bought myself a vacation mansion. Even if I end up flipping it, I can control who the next buyer is better than the judge and this Farmhouse realtor chick. It is my hope to keep this out of Eli Fowler’s hands. If anyone can confirm that first bid is from the Hiblers, I’ll withdraw my offer.
If this works, I will love you forever.
I should have refinanced a few years ago when rates were even lower but I put it off. If I do it now it will be on a 15 year fixed rate so my payoff year will be about the same. Because of the insane real estate market my house is worth $200,000 more now than the last time I refinanced. I suppose I should start now to have cash on hand. That way if it doesn’t work out, I can just pay the money back and be pretty much right where I am only with a lower interest rate. I can even use a bit of the cash on my own house before I do.
I may have to contact a local real estate agent to work on this as I don’t trust Ms Farm and Home to even consider my offer since she appears to be in cahoots with Eli Fowler.
I’d like to know why Jarrod and Claire Hibler haven’t submitted an offer.
Having been pissed of by the whole debacle myself, I contemplated doing the same thing. I wonder if a couple of bidders could get above the current contract price and zero in on a successful offer….
I think if there were two or three, perhaps drawn from some of those old house sites, that Eli might back off. He doesn’t want a bidding war. He wants it easy, quick and cheap. I don’t think he wants to pay a lot of money in case he loses his bid to rezone the property. Then he would be stuck with a property he paid more than he wanted and can’t do what he planned. The question is how high it would have to go before he bows out.
Right now it is $16 a sq ft.
My house is $527.75 a sq ft.
Please contact my real estate agent, and re-submit your offer: Lacie Hamlin 620 481 0213. Let her know that Ross gave you her number.
The fact that the “right of refusal” was disclosed is a good thing. Whether demanded by the city as a day-late, dollar-short show of interest and responsibility, or required by law or ethics, it is not something that somebody determined to pull a fast one would do on their own.
Even if it deters a few looky-loos, people who are seriously interested in acquiring the property will not balk at making a (hopefully) higher offer.
Hi, David!
You wrote: “it is not something that somebody determined to pull a fast one would do on their own.”
Respectfully, I disagree. It seems exactly what someone determined to do a fast one would do. And, the listing real estate agent sat next to Eli at the last zoning meeting, and left with him.
It’s called poisoning the well.
And this poisoning is not happening via a single person.
I agree that this whole cesspit is a sham of a mockery of a farce of a travesty of a real-estate transaction, but I disagree that the Right of first refusal is a bad thing–even in this case. I listed and sold historic properties in Wichita for years, and I sometimes wrote escapes from tenuous transactions into contracts on my listings. My broker was a specialist in historic properties, and her husband was a real-estate lawyer (later a mediator) and aficionado of historic houses. (See also my reply to Scott, below.)
Your posts and public knowledge of the right of first refusal have resulted in a competing offer on Plumb Place. This is good.
[From Ross: David, every aspect of the sale of the Plumb mansion…ongoing, for what, six months now?…appears very creepy. So, I’ve no reason to believe the right-of-first refusal as applied here is any kind of good-faith effort.]
This is most distressing!!
I am hopeful that Plumb House will have a worthy buyer or worthy buyers!
Thank you Ross for alerting us to this absolutely distressing situation!! Hugs to you & your alerts!
Hugs to you Ross FOR your alerts!
You should write a Letter to the Editor of your newspaper to let people know this is happening. You can be very persuasive!
I think the letter should be written to your state real estate board. All realtors are supposed to be guided by a code of ethics. As a retired realtor, this makes my blood boil!
I think more than one state board should be notified, starting with the judge. Just because he recused himself should be no dismissal of corruption. It was only the down vote on the rezoning and accompanying shit that hit the fan at that meeting that the current crap-fest is happening.
Has anyone thought to contact the YWCA to let them know they are being cheated on this sale? Is there anyone at Plumb Place dot org left to contact?
Mary, the YWCA bowed out in the 1940s.
Only one person is in charge: a banker in Olpe, a tiny town south of Emporia. Which, as with everything regarding the sale of the Plumb mansion, makes no sense.
Hmm. Is this banker also in cahoots with Eli and Becky? Why is this little bank in this tiny town in charge and not a larger bank closer by? Yeah, that kinda stinks too.
Would Lacie deal directly with the bank or would she have to do through Becky? If I use that escalator clause I don’t want anyone but Lacie to know what my cap is.
[From Ross: I would trust Lacie. I would 100% not trust Becky. And, yes, the whole process stinks.]
If I were putting in an offer i would put in an escalator clause. Basically you match what ever the highest offer is but add an amount like $500 so you have the highest offer up to a certain cap amount. I did it when I got in a bidding war for my historic home.
Thank you for this. I had never heard of an escalator clause. I don’t want to price anyone else out of the house (like Patrick who really wants to move to Kansas and live in it) but it is a really good option to know about. I don’t want to get in a bidding war against Patrick (or Jarrod and Claire Hibler. I just want to make sure Eli doesn’t get the house.
I just got caught up on all of this shenanigans. The Judge, the Realtor, and anyone associated with this F*ckery should be ASHAMED at trying to pull the wool over peoples eyes. This building should be used as the Plumb’s requested. Period.
God speed to you, Ross, and the folks of Emporia.
Sneaky smalltown shizazz.
Ross, just give it exposure. Eli wants it cheap. It’s very common to list something low and create a bidding situation. We all know $200,000 is low, but how many people want to live in Emporia and want to care for that much house? Still, it’s a great house and I hope someone appreciates it.
Generally a right of first refusal is part of a elsewhere written agreement between the seller and a third party. I’ve never seen one as part of an actual highest and best offer during a sale.
Have you checked with the county to see if there are any other documents recorded against the property that would explain the right of first refusal?
The Plumb Place dot org website is still up and sorta working. They were running the place as a women’s shelter. I’m wondering if they are hoping to raise the funds to get it back in operation again. There is some interesting information still accessible on their website including floor plans for first and second floors and the operating budget including property taxes and utilities.
I’m wondering if the right of first refusal is acting something like a “reserve” in an auction, where if the minimum isn’t reached there is no sale.
Mary, the old board collapsed.
A new board is kinda sorta in place but they are not authorized yet. And, if and when they are, they will have nothing to do with the mansion. Rather, the funds from the sale of the mansion will be used by the new board to help women.
An offer on the house was accepted. I assume this is Eli. The offer is contingent on the zoning being changed. The zoning board ruled against this. So, an appeal has been filed, which will be heard by the City Council next week (I think). If the appeal is denied, the offer can be withdrawn.
If however a serious HIGHER offer is received in the meantime, or several higher offers, and offers not requiring a zoning change, the City Council would have zero incentive to overrule the zoning board decision.
As a separate component, the right of first refusal would allow Offer #1 to match any higher bid.
So there needs to be at least 2-3 offers at or above asking to show there is interest in the place before next week.
Where are the Hiblers? I thought they were interested in Plumb Place.
[From Ross: As I understand it, the Hiblers made a very low offer. They stated they could do better but only after their house was sold. If this is incorrect, I hope the Hilber’s comment otherwise!]
I’m still waiting to hear from Lacie.
Have the Hilbers contact me and maybe we can work something out where after they sell their house they can buy Plumb Place from me.
I have don’t know if these ideas would be of use to the process of seeing this property’s sale be above board, I am throwing them out there in hopes that they can be of use.
1. If you are able to make an offer, you might want to make sure that it allows assignment of the contract without penalty to someone else if you are looking for someone who will restore it in a sensitive manner. I believe that this is done by placing the phrase, heirs, and assigns after your name as buyer, an assignable contract can be transferred to someone else for a fee, which is not required to be disclosed to the seller or the public. You can also assign the contract without charging a fee at all, although you would need to consult an expert in real estate law in that jurisdiction. I do believe that you need to take title in order to insert covenants into the deed that can prevent certain uses such a demolishing the house, say, if the property were worth more without the house on it.
There are so many complicated scenarios.
2. Another thought is that a proposal be made to the City Council that, if they are even considering the zoning change, the amount of the existing offer be disclosed by the prospective buyer and that the buyer disclose buyer’s maximum bid before withdrawing from the existing contract.
3.The council could be encouraged to decline to change the zoning by a write in campaign by registered voters in their district.
4. The fact that Ross has demonstrated his interest in preservation with this blog and put Emporia on the map as far a those interested in preserving old properties world wide are concerned, should bring tremendous interest to preservation rather than changes in the zoning.
5. Ross has certainly educated so many about the grants that are available in Kansas, perhaps the people who decide who will receive the grants may have some input on what appears to be going on. Pressure from the Kansas state government could certainly have an impact on the council’s decision.
Scott, the a right of first refusal IS between the seller (the banker in Olpe, acting as the receiver) and a third party (the person who made the offer).
When I was a real-estate salesperson, I listed a number of properties that were unusual for historical or other reasons. Through the years, I had sellers who were willing to accept tenuous offers because they wanted to have something–anything–going on. My broker and I usually suggested that they write a provision into the contract to permit its nullification based upon acceptance of a subsequent offer and inability of the first buyer to show substantial progress toward closing. (Higher price was not the only consideration; a good closing was equally important.) Responsible buyers understood the need for this and it motivated them to move quickly. Bad buyers wouldn’t go for it.
Showing a property as being “under contract” looks absolute; it tells other buyers that there’s no point in showing interest, and does not give the seller a way to get out of a tenuous contract should an intrepid buyer try to make an offer anyway. Showing it as being under a contract with an out indicates that there has been interest (which might motivate better buyers) and gives the seller a way to consider and accept better offers. This is good for the seller and, generally, good for the property.
You should contact your local tv station–they might be interested in a story like this.
Wow! I have nothing to add except my blood pressure went up! Hanging on for more updates! 🙂
I just got off the phone with Lacie.
The time to move on this property is NOW for anyone interested. She said whoever put in the original offer has 48 hours to top a competing bid or let it go. That means an offer has to be put in before the zoning meeting next week. She said the rezoning doesn’t look good but still, now is a better time. If it’s Eli then he takes a chance on paying a lot more and being stuck with a residential property he can’t turn into condos, apartments or storage. His other option is to walk away.
We talked price. I asked her about market value for Plumb Place. She said the property is unique and there isn’t anything like it so it’s difficult to estimate. I asked about the Gufler B&B. She said in todays market maybe $800,000 but it’s in better condition. We think Plumb Place is maybe around $300,000.
I told her I wouldn’t be making this my primary residence but also wouldn’t be running it as a B&B or business. But I did ask one thing. If I could remove the 1920 annex connecting the two buildings and split the parcel. It’s actually four lots so it would be divided into two and two. For me it’s a privacy thing. Call it California paranoia but it creeps me out to have my house connected to another by any means. I wouldn’t even live in a duplex. When I was looking for a house it was single family only, no sharing anything. To me, a locked door isn’t enough. I don’t want some passageway connecting my living space to strangers. So she is going to look into that. If Plumb Place and the Plumb Carriage House can be separate, it is easier to sell Plumb Place (to the Hilbers perhaps when their house sells or to Patrick if he decides to move from Denver) and then sell or lease the Carriage House to a charity or other institution for a shelter, senior center or other community benefit. It’s still plenty big and I think legally this would benefit both properties. I would want my house and yard to be private, but I’d like the Carriage House to serve the community. If not a shelter then a community center or senior center. Put a catio and dog run in the back so women can bring their pets and a playground for children. That would certainly be more serviceable for abused women looking to leave their situation. Some of the upstairs could be two bedroom suites for those with children.
I am going to contact my old mortgage broker, who is now retired, and see if he can give me the name of someone he trusts to get a letter saying I have the funds to follow through on my bid. It will be over asking but not market value to start. I will use the escalator clause (Thank you, Joshua). The only thing I told her is I don’t want to compete against the Hiblers or Patrick if they submit bids as they want to move to Emporia as their primary residence and I will likely keep my current house as my primary residence.
Plumb Place would need some renovations anyway before I could even stay there temporarily. The upstairs kitchen needs to be removed to the carriage house, the the downstairs kitchen made functional. (I have seen no photos of the kitchen), a two car garage with storage and a workshop would need to be built, a substantial and secure dog run in the back yard. I cannot even think of vacationing there unless my dogs have some secure outdoor space. The white picket perimeter fence will have to wait. Heat, AC and a working bathroom and kitchen are the priorities.
Oh, and that handicapped ramp immediately comes down. That cover over the basement will wait until I consult with someone about if that is to mitigate flooding of the basement during rain or snow. If so, then alternatives will need to be found as I hate that thing. All of the bricked in basement windows will be unbricked. But I am not going to put a lot of money into the carriage house until I see what is needed in the mansion as that will be my first priority.
Perhaps after a few visits I’ll decide to flip and make Plumb Place my primary residence and vacation in SoCal for the winters and summers. You never know what the future will bring and my ties to this city are becoming less and less. Soon there won’t be a lot to keep me here except the weather.
Thanks