Three Scary Plans
After buying the Cross House in 2014, I quickly identified three related issues which were a problem.
However, I have ignored these issues ever since due to the assumed terrifying costs associated with resolving said issues.
But…time now presses upon me.
Sigh.
ISSUE ONE
The carriage house has, quite sensibly, a 2-zone HVAC system. One zone heat/cools the second floor. The fan/coil unit is in the attic, laying on its side. Then, many flexible ducts reach out from the fan unit, like legs on a spider, to reach the far edges of the second floor.
The issue? Or, issues?
- I dislike fan/coil units that are not easily accessible and serviceable.
- Flexible ducts are HORRIBLE. I hate them with a passion. Why? Because they are highly inefficient. Why? Because their every interior inch creates turbulence, and this causes the fan/coil unit and exterior condenser to work MUCH harder to force air through the long flexible spider legs. This is bad.
The basement, first-floor, and second-floor of the Cross house had miles of flexible ducts in 2014. There are none today. In their place, I installed rigid ducts which air, delightedly, flows through.
And, happy ducts make Ross happy. In addition, the attendant cost of running forced-air heating/cooling will, thus, be significantly reduced. And this makes Ross very happy.
Today, I met again with Jason from Modern Air to re-review what we reviewed way back in 2014. So, soon, the fan/coil unit will be hauled out from the attic and placed vertically in the former main bathroom. All the spider legs will be torn out, ruthlessly. This will thrill Ross. Then, a new rigid steel trunk line will be installed in the attic, with new rigid steel spider legs, and the heating/cooling of the second-floor will be vastly more efficient, and, to the end of time.
Ross excited.
ISSUE TWO
In the basement of the carriage house is the fan/coil unit and ductwork for the second zone, servicing the first-floor. The return duct is surreal, being hand-made out of a zillion small bits of metal, all screwed together and sealed…sorta…with caulk. I have never seen anything…like it. I have stared at it, for seven years now, with a bit of awe and a large amount of horror.
It. Must. Go.
Under the living room, there is a rigid steel trunk line (this is good) and rigid steel spider legs (also good), servicing the very large living room. These can stay.
However, under the secret bedroom, dining room, and kitchen is a horror of flexible ducts running up down and all around.
This. Too. Must. Go.
As I need headroom in the basement, a normal-sized trunk line will not work under these three rooms. Because I am, on occasion, clever, I came up with seemingly crazy idea of creating a trunk line only 4-inches in height but a whopping 30-inches wide. Jason, after he recovered his senses, did calculations, and looked at me with wide, astonished, and disbelieving eyes: “Ummm, that will work.” He then blinked rapidly for a short while.
When this work is completed, the heating/cooling of the first-floor will be vastly more efficient, and, to the end of time.
Ross excited.
ISSUE THREE
The third floor of the Cross House has a forced-air heating/cooling system. The equipment and ducts are in the 4th-floor attic.
And the ducts are…you guessed it…flexible. So, miles of inefficient spider legs.
And it is hard to access the fan/coil unit for servicing.
The plan is to bring the fan/coil unit down to the third-floor, and placed vertically. All the spider legs will be torn out, ruthlessly. This will thrill Ross. Then, a new rigid steel trunk line will be installed in the attic, with new rigid spider legs reaching out to the far edges, and the heating/cooling of the third-floor will be vastly more efficient, and, to the end of time.
Ross excited.
To offset some of the cost, I plan to install all the new rigid ducts for Issue Three.
CONCLUSION
The cost of all this will be terrifying. I am afraid of the soon-to-be estimates.
But, somehow, somehow, I will find a way to proceed with the work. Why? Because I, ahh, will just have to.
I have previously done posts about how much I loathe sloppy work, alligatored interior trim, caked-on exterior paint, rotted framing timbers, and on and on and on.
In short: Bad work makes me cringe. It feels like an assault on something beautiful: my 1894 historic house.
While the above three systems work, they are inefficient and, well, badly done. Oh, the horror.
Oh. The horror.
And my baby deserves better.
My baby deserves the best.
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Looking forward to seeing that 4 inch high by 30 inch wide duct. You amazed even the experienced HVAC agent!
“Secret” bedroom? Did I miss something?
Karen, there’s a room in the SW corner of the first floor. Its door is kinda hidden behind the staircase. Hence, my calling it the ‘secret’ room.
Got it. Thanks for the info!
I have recently bought an 1853 Italianate hotel that was converted into a home in the 1930s. I hadn’t thought of four by thirty square ducting for the mains, I am grateful for this post because it solves my problem. My third floor has the low Italianate attic where such an arrangement can circle the attic space tight to the roof along the outer walls without giving up attic storage. I too hate the flex duct. The third floor of my hotel/house originally, in the time of no electric or indoor plumbing, had eight bedrooms on the third floor, which I hope to use as work rooms for my many hobbies. A former owner had gutted the walls and ceilings on the third floor. I would have preferred the original plaster walls, but it sure makes it easier to run the ducts in the attic around the outside walls. I now need to figure out if creating triangular ducts that fit under the pitch of the roof will alter the efficiency of the system. Do I make them eight by thirty. I have no idea yet. These perimeter duct chases will also need to feed ceiling vents for the second floor.
…So much to do, I thought that I had the funds to get the house right. I am seeing that I have maybe half the money that I need.
Years ago I learned when I was having a forced air system installed that a house need to breathe. This means that there must also be plentiful returns on the HVAC duct system. If you have all the ducts you need, but the returns are insufficient, your house will not heat or cool properly. I am sure that you are aware of this, but I bring it up as general knowledge for those who are doing what we do who might hire a contractor that doesn’t know it.
Here is a link to the OHD post for the house that I bought, Thank You Kelly!!!!!!!!
https://www.oldhousedreams.com/2021/04/29/c-1860-warwick-md/
How exciting, Stewart! Congrats!
After many projects over many years, my rule of thumb on estimating costs: Be as precise as possible. Get multiple bids. Include all contingencies. Add inflation over time. Don’t forget about financing costs. Triple check everything. Confidently arrive at an estimated cost. Double it.
Sadly, this is an excellent formula.
Hi, David!
Ahhh…I don’t work that way.
With all the stained-glass restoration, I obtained one bid, and during the five years the project took, I never had a problem. And the final costs = original bid to the penny.
With Justin, he works on time and materials. I ask that X work be done, he completes X work, and then invoices me. This would not work if I didn’t trust him.
While Modern Air will provide me with bids for the three projects, I will not ask other companies for bids. I’ve worked with Modern Air since 2014, and know them well at this point. They, too, know the Cross House and it’s obvious the pride they take in helping to get the house right. The men bring their wives by to show off their work and the house.
I’m lucky to have Justin, and I’ve been blessed my whole career in finding good people who take pride in their work and don’t overcharge.
Hi Ross!! Absolutely. You have good relationships with your contractors. I use my above formula pre purchase to figure out if I should buy the property at all. My experience has been that the “double it” step happened each and every time.
Of course, it didn’t stop me (much to my pocketbook’s dismay). Once the work is underway, as you know, it is absolutely imperative to find good contractors who understand what you’re going for and that you trust.
This is pretty much how I did it in my restoration of my Portland house. But, like you, I was lucky to find the right people.
This is another, unmentioned rule. When you find good people, keep them. It can be penny wise and pound foolish to shop around to save a few bucks when you have people you trust that do quality work and are already familiar with the project.
That is similar to a DIY formula I developed for my own not so old but old enough house.
“It will always cost twice as much, take three times as long and you will always be short one essential tool.”
Ah, the too many times I’ve had to stop in the middle to run to Home Depot to get some special tool or a size I don’t have.
I hate metric.
I applaud you for not liking sub-standard work. (sloppy) The effort to do it right will pay off in the long run, not only with piece of mind but a more efficient system. While the cost to fix this now may be more than you hoped to spend, it will save money in the long term. Hang in there, my friend!
Putting this level of thought into your HVAC system will pay off over time. It’s sooooo not sexy. It’s not fun, like picking out paint colors. But I love your commitment to doing things right, and I learn so much from posts like this one. Time to go dust the basement now, including the top of the water heater and furnace (another good habit I picked up from you).
“But…time now presses upon me”.
More like:
“The arrival of Cody, my star apprentice and savior draws ever nearer” THAT presses upon you!
~ 100 days to go!
Thanks for a good laugh, Cody. I’m due for another visit to the Cross House this fall and hopefully will get to meet you and welcome you to Kansas!