Just So Ya’ Know…PART III
This is a political post.
If interested, please scroll down…
Biden made an impossible decision.
In a lose/lose situation.
He accepts responsibility.
THIS is leadership.
Thank you, Mr. President.
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My ex husband was a Marine. So was his brother, his sister-in-law, his best friend. We are all still family, even if we’re not married to each other anymore.
Today was a really hard day for all of us. And none of us BLAME Biden. Joe Biden was left with a sh*t situation by the former guy, after nearly 20 years of sh*t decisions by previous admins. Joe Biden is the one who finally and for good is getting us out of this quagmire. And he’s still taking full responsibility for everything because he’s POTUS and he knows that’s how it works.
My heart goes out to the families of the fallen.
Well said, Kara.
Thank you.
BIG hug!
I agree.
I can’t imagine anyone else handling things better. You could see and hear the emotions he was feeling in his speech today. We are very lucky he won legitimately. 🙂
Thank you, Laurie.
Trump, Jr., stated that Biden showing emotions today made him look weak.
I think a man who is comfortable showing emotion is a man with a deep inner strength. Just what I want in my president.
I so agree. The orange guy only shows emotions like a spoiled child that has no capacity for emotions beyond how it affects him. 🙂
Yes. President Joe Biden is strong and honorable. The buck does stop with him. And yes he is a brave man to show his emotions. These abilities are so needed, welcome and a good example for other men and women.
We are extremely lucky to have him as our President. He is doing good. Thank you President Biden!
We must do everything we can not to go back to the former party…
I agree that Biden is, in general, doing a good job and is a colossal improvement over Trump. But come on, let’s be fair. This withdrawal was clearly not well planned. We underestimated the enemy, didn’t proactively prepare for an evacuation and didn’t proactively prepare to protect and evacuate the Afghans and their families who risked their lives to help us. We have left behind hundreds of millions of dollars of deadly military equipment that the Taliban now has control over. The Taliban is now a far greater force to be reckoned with and many more of our friends and their families will soon be dead. Yesterday 13 American boys and 90 Afghans died – their deaths are directly attributable to the failed plan of this operation. People are so desperate to get out that they are climbing onto planes only to fall to their deaths. If this went down while Trump was President, would you still look at this as a success? I can’t imagine anyone would. Certainly the accomplishment of evacuating people after the downfall of the Country is impressive, but that was a reaction to a catastrophe. If this had been properly planned out, there would have never been a need for a panicked, fire drill evacuation. I totally support Biden and support the decision to leave town, but this withdrawal is not his best day and most certainly not something that will looked upon historically as a success. Let’s not be so giddy that we rid ourselves of Trump and so enamored by his replacement that we become as blind to our failures. Facing a failure head on does not mean that we have to end our support of Biden. Not facing this failure increases the likelihood of repeating it down the road.
Hello, John!
You wrote: “But come on, let’s be fair.”
Well, I think I am being fair.
I don’t think you are.
You see, I know I don’t have anywhere near enough information about the situation to judge whether everything was handled well. Or not. As such, it seems fair to give Biden and his team the benefit of the doubt. Biden has a great deal of experience, and has obviously surrounded himself with top people. Biden is also famous for his compassion and empathy, and so I give him the added benefit of the doubt that he did everything possible to assure a good exit.
This, to me, is fair.
This seems very unfair to me: Not having anywhere near enough information about the situation to judge it accurately, but damning it nonetheless.
This also seems unfair: Presuming that an alternative plan would have been better. You wrote: “If this had been properly planned out, there would have never been a need for a panicked, fire drill evacuation.”
But John, you can’t know that. That’s just your opinion rather than a fact. And, built into your opinion is an assumption: Your way would not have resulted in any deaths. But you can’t possibly know any such thing. Let’s say that Biden had announced our evacuation, say, six months previous. Well, that would have given the bad guys plenty of time to fuck things up, possibly resulting in MORE deaths. Telegraphing military intentions far in advance is a well-known tactical mistake.
Our intelligence agencies have been telling Americans in Afghanistan to GET OUT since March. Did you know that? And John, that’s the kind of planning you’ve stated didn’t happen. I’ve no idea how many Americans have left since March, but how is it Biden’s fault if, FIVE MONTHS AFTER BEING TOLD TO GET OUT, a number of Americans nonetheless decided to remain IN A WAR ZONE?
A war zone, by its very nature, is wildly dangerous and unpredictable. And I’m gonna bet that every person in Afghanistan understands this. So, no matter what plans were implemented, shit was gonna happen. BECAUSE IT’S A WAR ZONE!
To me, it seems fair to applaud Biden for getting out 100,000+ people quickly and with, until yesterday, no American deaths.
It seem unfair to damn this incredible effort.
It seems unfair, as well, to assume that some other plan would have been automatically better. Maybe. But…maybe not.
It seems wildly unfair that, after we spent two decades training the Afghan military, and supplying them with billions in weapons, to blame Biden for their instant capitulation to the Taliban. Rather, it seems fair to blame the Afghan military. And even if Biden and his team had been advised about such a potential scenario, what should Biden have done? Stayed the course in Afghanistan? Resulting in MORE American deaths? John, if the Afghan military, and leadership, were not willing to fight for their country, WHY SHOULD WE?
It’s tragic that people died yesterday. Their deaths are added to the 2,500 US military personal that have died since 2001 in the country. Their deaths are added to the estimated 241,000 people killed in the Afghanistan/Pakistan war zone since 2001. Of this, at least 71,000 were civilians.
You wrote: “Yesterday 13 American boys and 90 Afghans died – their deaths are directly attributable to the failed plan of this operation.”
No, John. Their deaths are directly attributable to their being in A WAR ZONE. Again, you appear to assume that some other plan would have, somehow, magically resulted in no deaths. I make no such assumption in a war zone. No military plan, no matter well thought out and executed, will unfold perfectly. Why? To repeat: A war zone, by its very nature, is wildly dangerous and unpredictable.
To me, it seems fair to blame:
1) George W. He got us into this mess.
2) Obama. He stayed the course in this mess.
3) Trump. He also stayed the course. Then made an evil deal with the Taliban. Then released 5,000 Taliban fighters/leaders from prison.
It, too, seems fair to state:
Biden made an impossible decision.
In a lose/lose situation.
He accepts responsibility.
THAT is leadership.
Thank you, Mr. President.
Hi Ross,
With all due respect, I don’t agree.
I do agree that it was a mess. I agree that Afghanistan failed itself miserably. I also agree that I know next to nothing and that it is possible that you might be correct that there is a plausible explanation. On the other hand, it certainly appears that the US possesses more than ample ability to defend against the Taliban – we have been successfully doing it for a long time. Keep in mind I am referring to defense, not offense. The recent deaths were a result of a mass exodus necessitated by the Taliban overrunning the country. It seems only logical that had that exodus been completed in a controlled, well planned and properly defended manner prior to the overrun, the likelihood is high that the suicide bomber would not have occurred. Suicide bombers aren’t a recent invention – it isn’t just coincidence that he/she accomplished this level of success only now. The last time that many Americans died in one month in the same Afghanistan war zone was in 2014. In the past twelve months, only 1 American has died in that war zone. The historical statistics suggest that you can’t just blame it on them being in a war zone.
Biden was stating publicly and repeatedly a short while ago that what ultimately happened could not possibly happen. That suggests to me that our government/military truly didn’t anticipate this. The news reports tell me that the Afghan friendlies are struggling to get out of the country much less get visas – again that suggests to me that this was not anticipated. It is our responsibility to protect those people who risked their lives to help us during war and not leave them and their families behind to be butchered. I have to believe the intelligence was flawed. Not having proper intelligence and not anticipating the enemy is terminal in war. No matter how you look at it, there were some critical failures here and a lot of people are going to die or have already died as a result.
Biden made a very tough decision for us to get out. He accepts responsibility. I like a lot of what he has done. He is certainly doing a good job dragging us out of the muck that existed with Trump. I respect your opinion, but still believe that there were some major, costly mistakes made in this withdrawal.
Dear John,
You wrote: “In the past twelve months, only 1 American has died in that war zone. The historical statistics suggest that you can’t just blame it on them being in a war zone.”
I would agree…if I was cherry-picking like you.
But a look at ALL the historical statistics from our war in Afghanistan supports exactly what I stated.
This year, there were 13 US fatalities in the county. Yes, all in one month.
And, yes, in the previous twelve months there was zero.
But…there were 11 deaths in 2020.
There were 21 in 2019.
In 2010, for example, there was a whopping 496 deaths.
And there were many many months with monthly death tolls matching/exceeding 13, sixty total. So, that means there were FIVE YEARS of monthly death tolls matching/exceeding 13.
FIVE YEARS.
So, looking at just the historical statistics, the Biden departure plan went well. While 13 people tragically died during our departure phase, that is the 4th lowest annual number out of twenty years.
In short, I can only repeat myself: I doubt that ANY plan could have unfolded perfectly. War is messy.
Hi again Ross,
I’m not cherry picking at all. Drill down into the details. The most recent 13 deaths all happened instantaneously. One event by one suicide bomber who infiltrated an extremely densely populated area that was in part secured by our enemy, the Taliban. Why did that environment, and thus that opportunity, exist? If you look at the statistics, since 2014 the deaths have come in monthly blocks of 0, 1 or 2. Maybe 3 in a month or two – I don’t recall exactly but the vast majority were 0, 1 or 2. That means that since 2014, by far the most deadly single event is the one that just occurred. It means that the best the enemy could do against the US defenses was to kill 2 soldiers and we don’t know if that was one or two events as the statistics I found only show how many died in a month. In a brutal war environment where people are willing to go so far as to blow themselves up to kill Americans, that translates to a pretty effective defense. 0, 1 or 2 monthly deaths over an 80 month span of time versus 13 dead in the blink of an eye. What changed here?
We can agree that war is messy and that it is not likely that any plan would have unfolded perfectly. That is obvious. To me, it is also obvious that there were significant mistakes made with this withdrawal and that young men and women died as a result that might otherwise still been alive. That pains me and to not acknowledge a failure with such dire results would be a mistake. If it were my kid who died, I would at least want steps were taken to ensure that someone else’s kid didn’t face the same fate. That is not to say that a different course of action might not have led to other deaths – we will never know. War is messy and plans fail.
I understand if you still don’t agree – hopefully this is just a friendly debate. That is where it is coming from on my end.
Sigh.
You think it could have ended better. Fine.
But how you think it should have been ended might have resulted in MORE deaths.
That’s what you don’t seem to get.
Our leaving would, of course, prove provoking to the bad actors, no matter how it was handled.
That, too, is what you don’t seem to get.
There’s no ideal way to lose a war.
From your last comment; “But how you think it should have been ended might have resulted in MORE deaths. That’s what you don’t seem to get.”
From my last comment; “That is not to say that a different course of action might not have led to other deaths – we will never know. War is messy and plans fail.”.
But… compressing tons of people into a highly concentrated area where the task at hand requires lots and lots of in and out of unknowns in the middle of a brutal war zone with partial security provided by the enemy is a recipe for disaster. That scenario was created by the wholly unanticipated event of the Taliban overrunning the Country (as indirectly admitted by Biden) and the large volume of friendlies who were not proactively protected. Success in war is all about quickly taking advantage of opportunities when they arise. This was one of if not the greatest opportunity of the war for the enemy and they took advantage.
How did it come about that we were relying upon security from the enemy that we had been blowing up for the past twenty years? Is that not in and of itself indicative of a desperate situation? Should it, would it surprise anyone if we found that one or more of the Taliban guards who almost certainly hate all things American let the bomber, laden with explosives, slip by and into our midst?
As I said before – zero deaths for the prior twelve months and then 13 deaths from one event. Same war zone and after already significantly scaling back our presence there (fewer targets remaining and the already departed got out without issue). What changed here?