Plumb Place: Beware of Experts
This is my seventh post on the Plumb mansion.
This last week has been dizzying for many reasons but one thing struck me: how many people are “experts” in what the house needs.
Here’s one comment: “The roof require[s] total replacement at a horrendous cost.”
Here’s the roof:
.
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I am more than happy to place you in the position of being a “Professed Expert”.
While you may be = I do NOT claim to be an “Expert” on Roofs. What I am certain of is that any Insurance Carrier will inspect that roof and if they see damage they will require you to come out of pocket for replacement prior to insuring the property or they will refuse to insure it.
When I am told something is required by one contractor rather than relying on hearsay or photographs I engage the services of other “Licensed Experts” to tell me if it is actually required.
If it is required as I have now been told by 2 contractors would you care to share your “Expert” opinion with everyone as to the cost to tear off /replace the number of Squares that would be required on Plumb Place ??
You offered a quote by an…expert.
The images I took today belie such…advice.
I saw zero damage. Indeed, the roof looks new.
It rather sounds like you were interested in the house, in order to have two contractors tell you about the roof. Now it seems like you are trying to discourage people from placing any bids. Rather suspicious, eh Eli?
You made me laugh, Meade.
Bless you.
OldHouseLover is new here. Based on their comments, their name should be OldHouseHater.
I’ve kept back numerous comments as they were so relentlessly pessimistic. And I almost never do that.
And I, too, have had this same thought: “Now it seems like you are trying to discourage people from placing any bids.”
Does anyone else on this blog suspect that OldHouseLover might be Eli Fowler?
I’ve been reading your posts and it sounds more like you are trying to scare people off of putting in an offer. Is it because you have your eye on that house yourself?
Are you local? Have you done a walk through? Have you had the house inspected and have the report? More than one?
You can’t use conditions of past houses you’ve bought to compare to this house or any other. They are all unique.
Any house is a money pit, just like a car is. A car depreciates the minute you drive it off the lot but a house doesn’t. A car is fine for X number of years, but then it hits a period where it needs nothing but repairs, some quite expensive. Then it settles down and it’s regular maintenance again.
But a house doesn’t. Unless it has been neglected to the point it deteriorates to become unsafe for habitation, a house can be restored and can appreciate in worth.
My house was built in 1922 and was lived in by only two families, the original owners and a couple who rented it for a few years until it was sold to me. Within in year of my moving in I had to replace the main waterline from the alley to the house. Within the next five it was the gas line that needed replacing. And I had to replace it again a year ago. I’ve also had to replace the roof, the water heater, replace the fuses with circuit breakers, then do it again when the service was upgraded. It’s also been painted twice so far. It will need to be painted again within five years. I’ve also done things like replace glass, install PV on the roof and irrigation in the yard, plus landscaping. The property is now completely fenced. I have security cameras. But the mortgage payments and all of these costs are small compared to the equity I have from owning the home instead of paying rent.
It’s cheaper for me to own my car than to lease it or rent one. And much more convenient than public transportation although right now with the price of gas, cheaper to take the bus or trolley. But even the best car will have a finite lifespan and it will depreciate over time even with the best maintenance.
Anything can be considered a money pit.
While the outlay up front for this property will be large, it is still below market value (about $300,000) and with upgrades and sensitive restoration be easily worth twice what it is listed for. The property could become a lovely bed and breakfast. Or a home for a very large family. Yes some people actually need 10 bedrooms. Some need 20.
There are other possibilities. Renting or leasing out the Carriage house.
The parcel could be split and the two lots the Carriage House sits on sold, plus that empty fifth lot on the north also sold. That would both generate income and reduce the cost of property taxes, utilities and maintenance.
PV to generate electricity and efficient HVAC systems, insulation and energy efficient windows, etc. will both reduce operating costs and increase property values.
Not everyone that buys an old house is completely naive about what they are getting in to.
I bought my house for $80,000. It’s now valued at $680,000. Despite all of the money I’ve put into it and what I will be putting in to it as the entire north fence needs to be replaced, it is still a good investment. I’ll be getting it in tip top shape in case in the next ten years I decide to move and rent it out as income property. It should generate about $4,000 a month given the current location and the housing market. That’s a million dollars over a decade. Rental will cover the mortgage and maintenance and when the house is paid off will generate income.
As to the roof, when I bought my house there were already three layers of asphalt shingle on the south side, two on the north and it turns out all of it was on top of cedar shake. No insurance company cared about the roof. Only one company refused to insure my house. The Hartford. Because they didn’t like the furnace. It’s in the crawl space and the heat just rises into the house. No fan or anything. So I would question your expertise on insurance companies as well as roofs. Insurance companies are more likely to deny you insurance because they don’t like the breed of dog you own. But there is always a company that will insure you (for a price) until you repair or replace whatever it is they don’t like. Then you change companies for a better rate.
But I’m sure you know that.
A little research with country records shows the roof was done in 2018, 4 years ago, to the tune of $43,000. It would appear that between 2000 -2018 a fair amount of money was put into the place. $116,500 over the years. I wish the earlier ones indicated what work that was, but it’s a good sign.
Thank you, Patrick.
Your research confirms what the images clearly show: a nearly new roof.
Kinda interesting that someone purported to have experience with old house money-pits and who had not one but two inspections done didn’t bother to check the county records on the property. Sounds to me like there was an attempt to take him for a very expensive reroofing ride.
Or maybe it was just a fart in the wind.
I would respectfully ask the question – If a proposed Buyer relies upon your statement and buys that house, Are you stating that you personally warrant that the Roof DOES NOT have damage /need/or require Replacement ?
Now you’re just being silly, Eli.
LOL. You and I had the exact same thought and came to the exact same conclusion.
Your “expert” stated: “The roof require[s] total replacement at a horrendous cost.”
I show two images.
Showing a roof in near-new condition.
Any potential buyer can make their own determination.
If the property is purchased for cash and there is no bank loan, there is no need for insurance. It’s banks that require insurance. If a home is paid for, insurance is then optional on the part of the owner.
Now, please hit us with your next bushel of sour grapes, trying to poison buyers against making offers on this plumb of a place.
The statement “I’ve kept back numerous comments as they were so relentlessly pessimistic is bias – It appears you are trying to hide something rather than allowing a proposed buyer to share information acquired. I clearly stated I had possible interest in the property. Perhaps the statement was contained in one of the Posts you “chose to hold back”.
What bids come in or do not come in do not affect my decision making. The property should without a doubt go to the High Bidder. Should I tender a Bid it will be what I personally determine to be “Fair Market Value” based upon a professional informed feasibility study as to reasonable cost(s) required to immediately restore the property – not to wait 10-20 years depending upon the possibility of receiving grants.
If the real goal is to save Plumb Place = Liable Statements = Backbiting – Unwarranted Slurs – Conspiracy Theories = Nasty Comments = Name Calling are juvenile and serve absolutely no purpose.
I 100% don’t trust your motivations.
By all means put in your low bid based on that roof replacement and all of the other faults you’ve found in the house. Others, who I am sure will do their own inspections before making their offers, because that is what responsible buyers do, will put in theirs and they will be higher and you can either ignore your experts and inspections and outbid them or you can drop out.
I wonder why you even bother to consider offering anything for such a money pit as you’ve described. You’ve been burned twice. Why not buy a nice, new Condo somewhere and let the HOA take care of maintenance and landscaping. I hear they have lovely places in Florida. Or Texas.
UNSUBSCRIBE IMMEDIATELY
YOU CERTAINLY BACKED AWAY = NOT EVEN GRACEFULLY I MIGHT ADD FROM WARRANTING THE FACT THAT PLUMB PLACE DID NOT REQUIRE ROOF REPLACEMENT.
THOUGH I HAVE NOT REQUESTED YOUR TRUST IT APPEARS YOU TRUST NO ONE.
I COULD CARE LESS WHAT YOUR OPINION IS. FRANKLY AT THIS POINT APPEARANCES ARE THAT YOU ARE A TROUBLE CAUSER THAT HAS TOO MUCH TIME ON YOUR HANDS AND IN LIEU OF BEING PRODUCTIVE WISH TO SPEND THAT TIME MAKING SNIDE COMMENTS.
THE ONLY MOTIVATION I HAVE IS TO DISTANCE MYSELF FROM YOU, YOUR CONSPIRACY THEORIES AND YOUR SO CALLED BLOG. YOU BEST BE CAREFUL IN STATEMENTS YOU HAVE MADE AND CONTINUE MAKING AS THEY MAY WELL RESULT IN THE PEOPLE BEING DEFAMED INSTRUCTING THEIR ATTORNEY TO ISSUE YOU A SUMMONS REQUIRING YOU TO APPEAR IN COURT FOR LIABLE.
Um. Caps lock key.
Why are you even here?
Did someone touch a nerve?
Eli?
LOL. Unsubscribe? Seriously. Just don’t come here and read. Trouble maker? I certainly hope so. Really botched up plans to steal that house for less than half what it is worth, huh? And exposed Becky to losing her license with the KREC.
Love the threat of legal action. Do you know how hard it is to prove defamation in court?
Um. LOL. Someone has their chones in a bunch…
Ross is a nice person. He and I often don’t agree, but his desire to help save old homes is pure. You, on the other hand, need your meds checked and/or to get laid pronto.
Methinks I spy a troll. (All caps, threats, etc.) LOL! You must be doing something right, Ross.
I gasp, Mo! I gasp!
At first, I thought Meade’s comment was a clever joke: “Rather suspicious, eh Eli?”
Now…well…goodness, is Meade right on the money? Or, if OldHouseLover isn’t Eli, is OldHouseLover somebody quite close to Eli?
And the threatened legal action is also telling. As Eli’s dad is a judge. The very judge who put in motion the sale of Plumb Place.
The whole roof story is telling, too.
I was told that, after Eli made an initial low offer, he later lowered the offer based on ‘hail damage’ to the roof.
It’s also my understanding that those in charge of the sale accepted this story.
This is not unusual. Real estate agents and receivers are not experts on the conditions which impact all houses.
So, based on my long experience, a potential buyer can claim X, Y, and Z as the basis for their low offer, and the agent and seller will often just accept this as fact.
So here, on my blog, OldHouseLover stated that they were told: “The roof require[s] total replacement at a horrendous cost.”
So, today, I took two images of the roof. Which appears almost new. See images, above.
And then…fireworks ensued!
Eli’s father may be a judge but Eli is no legal expert. (Just add it to the list of things in which Eli is not an expert.)
“The five requisite elements of a defamation lawsuit?
A statement of fact. Of course, for defamation to have occurred, somebody must have made the statement that is considered defamatory. …
A published statement. …
The statement caused injury. …
The statement must be false. …
The statement is not privileged. …”
And in order for it to be libel (see I know how to spell libel) it has to be false. It’s not libel if it’s true.
Defamatory? Nope. Inflammatory? Maybe, but just to Eli because you have exposed and thwarted his plans.
Now the only injury Eli will have is losing Plumb Place with such a low ball offer despite all of the shenanigans he and Becky went through to try to steal that property. That isn’t a loss. He just didn’t get what he wanted. Well, grow up Buttercup. You can’t always get what you want.
Nothing said was false. Again, it has to be a LIE To be libel and Eli has to prove injury, which he can’t. So it’s just so much hot air. A little cyber temper tantrum that the plot was revealed and he’s either going to have to pay a lot more money or just give up on stealing Plumb Place.
I sure hope there are several offers, some even over asking. How is the bandwidth in Emporia? I’m rooting for Father of 19 from Florida.
BTW I looked at the roof from Google earth. I’ve also pulled up quite a few photos from various places and numbers from Plumbplace.org and various other resources. PlumbPlace.org operated that property for over 20 years and there is every indication they maintained it during that time. It has had had minimal service to prevent pipes freezing, etc since then so it is not the derelict money pit someone would like us to believe.
So-called blog? I’d say this is a blog. A very fine one. It’s been in operation for many years and is quite well-organized and regularly visited. No “so-called” about it. Now…would that be considered libel and defamation against your reputation? Gee, Ross. You might have grounds for a defamation lawsuit.
If you have the IP address for OldHouseLover you might be able to trace where he is posting from. Won’t that be enlightening?
Mary, we don’t know that OldHouseLover is Eli.
See my comment, below.
The threat of legal action is the topper and dead giveaway.
But it was a very fun read. Even the semi-coherent shouting rant.
Oy vey. Thanks for keeping on it Ross.
Oh dear! You have clearly hit a nerve with someone who appears to be attempting to devalue the property. The voracity with which Eli (or accomplices) assert their position reveals much about their intentions. Their motives are highly suspect, and if you ask me – “You’ve got trouble, right there in Emporia, KS…with a capital “T” and that rhymes with “D” and that stands for DECEPTION…”
It would seem to me, and I am not an expert (don’t you love how Eli bandied that term about, and he was the only one using it) that in order for a libel suit to occur, wouldn’t you have to be addressing a person by name, rather than by a user name on a blog?
I never did see where Ross said he was an expert. I never did see where anyone wrote disrespectfully, except for Eli. Ross didn’t back away from warranting the roof, which is the most ridiculous idea yet. He simply did not address it, as it didn’t warrant (see what I did there?) a response.
A little pet peeve of mine is people who say “I could care less.” The phrase is “I couldn’t care less.” If you could care less, then that says you care to some degree. Yes, I’m being petty.
Conspiracy theories? So-called blog? (What would a real blog need, then?) Trouble causer? I too hope so. If no one speaks up about what is going on with the Plumb house and therefore causes a ruckus, the end result could be a big loss for Emporia.
Speaking of big losses, losing Eli’s subscription to the blog doesn’t fit that term.
Why, yes. Yes you would. And the only one defamed by using his name is….Ross. By “OldHouseLover.” Interesting choice of handle. Might want to change it to “property thief.”
Trolling the blog might have seemed smart to him but losing it in an all-caps rant and then finishing it up with an empty legal threat is just juvenile. Very telling.
When OldHouseLover showed up and started disparaging Plumb Place, I suspected Eli was trolling the blog, looking for any information as to what was being exposed. He couldn’t stop the steal being exposed once it got out to bypass Becky and go directly to Kevin, so the only thing he could do to discourage the competition was to bad-mouth the house to whoever came to the blog for more information on BUYING the house. Aesop was right. So was Obi Wan Kenobi.
Meade, we don’t know that OldHouseLover is Eli.
See my comment, below.
Keep up with the publicity — can you contact the newspapers – local T.V. stations ?
The house needs to be on a few more of those old house websites people frequent along with updated, correct info about having realtors contact Kevin Flott directly to make offers. The house just needs a few good offers that we all know will be higher than Eli’s. A buyer only needs a letter from their lender saying they are good for the money.
I think newspapers and TV stations would be more interested in the aspects of the sale that Ross has exposed than advertising the house for sale. They can sell more papers and get better ratings with a local scandal of corruption than they can with the sale of an historic home.
Sorry, you seem to have attracted a troll. It’s better to just block him or ignore him at this point. I do hope somebody buys that house and saves it.
ATTENTION EVERYBODY:
None of us know who OldHouseLover is.
Yes, it might be Eli. Or, somebody close to him.
It might also be just some random person.
I’m always careful in my statements to use words like ‘seem’ or ‘possibly’ or ‘perhaps’. I don’t present statements as if they are a fact when I’m actually guessing.
While I intensely dislike how the whole sale on Plumb Place has been handled, I don’t know Eli and harbor him no ill will.
Wow! You have diplomacy down pat. Well done! Onward!
You’re right, Ross. I don’t know for a fact it’s Eli. Meade probably doesn’t either. Even though my intuition tells me OldHouseLover’s posts read like what an early 30s child of privilege would write when he isn’t getting what he wants. Also kinda suspicious that when Meade suggested he might be Eli, he disappeared. (Or was that you?)
I suppose it could have been a teenage offspring if he were married very young. Odd they would pick the handle OldHouseLover. I would think a 13 or 14 year old would have picked something a little more Marvel Comics. Most people here just use their names.
I don’t do Facebook or subscribe to the Emporia Gazette but maybe someone who does can read Eli’s side of this purchase and what plans he has for Plumb Place.
http://www.emporiagazette.com/gaz/article_1dbe61d2-9b11-11ec-b7ca-4fed5c3f7813.html
https://www.facebook.com/login/?next=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.facebook.com%2Ftheemporiagazette%2Fposts%2F4788127087907544%3Fcomment_id%3D4789019674484952
Mary, Eli wanted to use the carriage house as storage units for rent. Hence, the request for a zoning change. Which was…blessedly…denied. Which he…sigh…has appealed.
He wanted to chop the mansion into five apartments. This is horrifying. And the public, which has enjoyed access to the grand reception rooms for a century, would lose this invaluable gift.
I know of others who will pay more for the house than Eli has offered, do not need a zoning change, and will keep the grand reception rooms available for public benefit.
When such people tried to put in an offer, they were rejected by the listing agent.
The de facto owner (the receiver) was not informed about this.
Yep, the whole process stinks. Again, we are all witness to a house being stolen in plain sight.
Yes, I get that.
Why isn’t there a feature article in the Emporia Gazette about it?
I’d just like to know what kind of publicity the Emporia Gazette is giving Eli, as none of what you have said seems to have made the front page of the local paper. I find that very interesting. They had several articles end of last year about Plumb Place closing, the auction, being up for sale. Then there is Eli’s piece March 5 before the house was listed on Trulia, Zillow, et al. A lot has happened in 7 weeks but there doesn’t seem to be anything written about that except for that zoning meeting. Or maybe there has and we just haven’t seen it?
A lot of bad things have been said about the Listing Agent and the Buyer in regards to the sale of Plumb House. The name calling, accusations, innuendos and things stated, (and who has stated them), are clearly evidenced in posts to your Blog.
Obviously you were looking for only positive comments. Due to my sincere effort to participate in Saving / Restoring Plumb House even I became the blunt of ridicule and nasty comments from you and your posters as well. Putting a Buyer in Plum House that is not educated as to what will be required to restore/maintain a property of that size is not only a dis service to the Buyer, it lacks respect for Plumb House and it’s heritage. To make absurd comments like ” Insurance is not required – only Banks require insurance if relied upon could result in an absolute catastrophe and bankruptcy for someone in the event of a Fire or Major Loss.
After meeting with my Attorney this afternoon based upon the following definition and the “Conspiracy Theories” espoused in Posts on your blog I wish to make it abundantly clear that I am NOT associated with that gentleman or that Listing Agent in any manner and I have never indicated I was. In fact I have never met – do not even know them. I further wish to make it clear that should I make an offer on the property it will be only after I am 100% certain that his Offer/Contract/Right of Refusal is “Dead”.
I have never in any manner stated or posted negative comments on your blog or anywhere else in reference to that Buyer, Seller, or the Listing Agent, nor have I ever been a participant in Tortious Interference With his Contract.
Tortious Interference With Contract Defined:
When it comes to Real Estate Transactions or Employment Contracts Tortious Interference With a Contract can result in serious costly legal consequences. The Listing Agent/The Buyer and the Seller “ALL” entered into contractual agreement(s) by and between themselves. The Seller requested and engaged the Listing Brokers Services – The Listing Agent accepted the Seller’s assignment to sell the property. The Buyer apparently then presented an offer thru the Listing Agent to Buy the property. The Seller following negotiations apparently accepted the Offer presented. At that point in time 3 Actual Contractual Agreements were in effect evidenced in a “Writing” known as “The Contract(s)”.
The law says that when two parties are in a contract, intentionally interfering with that contract, or the contractual obligations / benefits of the parties, is illegal, and can result in the party/parties that interferes being sued.
Although it’s called Tortious Interference With Contract, there doesn’t even need to be any formal, written contract between the parties. Simply interfering with an advantageous business relationship between the parties can get you in legal trouble.
To prove tortious interference with contract, the party/parties suing must only show:
(1.) That there is or was a business relationship, which can be a formal contract or agreement, but can just be some advantageous relationship between parties
(2.) That the Defendant(s) – the Parties that interfered knew of the relationship
(3.) That the Defendant(s) disrupted the relationship
(4.) That the party suing incurred damages that were caused by the interference(s)
Actions that cause someone to break a contract, withdraw promises, or withdraw from the entire business relationship, can lead to costly liability.
If you said something bad about the person or their business (which could, but doesn’t necessarily have to rise to the level of legal defamation), you could be tortiously interfering with a contract between the parties and / or their business relationship.
Someone aggrieved by a tortious interference can not only claim lost profits, past and future, they can claim damages as well for any harm to their personal or company(s) reputation.
Anyone who disagrees may feel free to visit their counsel as I have.
You’re back. What a surprise. And that your lawyer would give you such an extensive response on a Saturday no less.
There is a difference between an offer and a contract. Plumb Place is not under contract and Kevin is still accepting offers. Since you are so interested in the house, I look forward to hearing you’ve put in an offer directly to Kevin. I’m sure it will be over asking now that you know the roof is in such good shape and will not need to be replaced at horrendous costs. I’m sure you’re grateful to Ross for saving you all that money you might have paid to those unscrupulous contractors. You can use it to pay for those billable hours you racked up on a Saturday.
If anyone is interfering with the sale of this property it is the real estate agent who, if all of the reports on this blog are to be believed, or even half of them, is interfering with the seller’s ability to obtain ALL offers on this property. If the agent was hired by the bank to sell the property and is not passing on every offer, then I would say there is your target for litigation. Why don’t you try putting in an offer and if the agent blows you off or refuses to pass it on to Kevin, you’ll have someone for your attorney to sue. Then you can come back and post the law regarding failure to abide by state real estate laws and include all the stuff about how to have a real estate license revoked. I know I would look forward to reading it. Fascinating stuff.
While not having insurance is a foolish risk, unless you have a mortgage with any lender it is not required by law. Perhaps you can ask your lawyer if he can name any state that does require homeowner’s insurance even if you own your home outright. Even New York State and California don’t require you to have homeowner’s insurance if you own your own home.
What a mess!
Total Respect to Ross for bringing light to this situation and hopefully someone will come in and buy it to do the right thing and save it.
Hard to judge a building from just photos but looking at them, and from what I got from a very brief talk with Lacie (she was headed out to a meeting), the house is prime to be brought back to life.
Another option I have not seen talked about would be to use the annex for student housing for the college. I’m sure there are a dozen looking for economical places to live. Doing this would allow the annex to be left As Is, and possibly even leave the baths as are, sort of like dorms. Students are used to sharing bathrooms in a dorm, or you could some remodel and do most with private baths.
Then clean up the main house with owners’ areas and use the rest as an event venue.
With the grants Ross mentioned earlier and some cash I think you could be all in and keep it under 300k and have a good little biz. I have been doing Hospitality projects for 12 years or so and this is a very doable project in my opinion, as long as there are no structural defects.
The big thing to make this project work is for the listing agent to return calls. People on things like this typically move pretty quickly. If the agent won’t return call, the potential will be off to pursue a different property with a responsive agent. And the agent for Plumb Place never called me back.
Dar Morgan,
Please bypass the listing agent.
Instead, call the receiver: Kevin Flott. The number of his bank is: 620 475 3213.
Or email him: kflott@bankcsb.biz
He’s the sole person who might make things right.
Ross, do you know if a deadline has been set for offers by Mr. Flott? I will be going to Stillwater OK to meet w/ Partners and the city on a Convention Center Hotel were doing there later next week and thought maybe if there is time I could drive on up and take a look and talk to city, etc. and perhaps Mr. Flott. Let me now and feel free to email if you prefer or would like. gary@lngbuilders.com
Morgan, Mr. Flott has, so far, declined to offer a date when no more offers will be accepted.
What I urge is for you to keep Mr. Flott abreast of your intentions. Like, send him an email outlining your plans and experience. Then stay in touch, like several times a week via email.
With his permission and, if you like, I could show you the house.
Unfortunately, I had a place about an hour NE of Emporia I was already looking at and I put an offer in on it Friday after no one called me back. Just like realtors scream at us buyers “you have to move quick, or someone will beat you to it” well, same goes the other way, I have lost out on about 6 projects because I waited and a week later, they had an offer and multiple backups. If this doesn’t work out, this will be the first one I come back around to.
If you don’t get a response by Monday I would suggest you call Kevin directly and put an offer on Plumb Place.
Upon my expressing concern as to meeting requirements for restoration of properties listed on the National Register Ross Posted:
“The house is on the National Register. This is not a police force protecting historic buildings.
A new owner can do whatever they want with the mansion and carriage house. As can I regarding my National Register house.”
In contacting the City of Emporia to verify if in fact the statement Ross made could be relied upon they chuckled and directed me to their website as follows:
Historical Preservation (emporia-kansas.gov) Wherein it clearly states the following:
The Planning and Zoning Office is the liaison between the City and the State for the review of work within the district. Any permitted work within the Historic District (for both contributing and non-contributing buildings) requires the completion of a local Historic District application, explaining the details of the project. This information is sent to the State Historic Preservation Office for their review. They have up to 30 days to provide comments and recommendations. No work can be started or completed until they have provided comments on the project.
The City of Emporia Requires a State Historic Preservation Office (SHPO) Appeal Application for any appeals from the State’s Recommendations within the Historic District or on a Historic Property.
You have conflated two things.
1) A National Register listing. This is what we were discussing. And the Plumb mansion is on the National Register. But a listing on the Register offers ZERO protection, and it is not a police force.
2) Being in a historic district. The Plumb mansion in NOT in the Emporia Historic District. As confirmed to me last week by the zoning department. Thus, historic district rules do not apply. You can see for yourself, here. The property is 224 East Sixth.
You were wrong about the roof. You are wrong about this.
I guess you didn’t unsubscribe after all.
Nor do you understand the difference between the National Register and the State Historic Preservation Department and Emporia Historic District.
You can’t do anything to any property without permits and they vary from state to state and city to city. What Ross stated is absolutely correct. The National Register is just that. A list of historic homes. They don’t protect anything nor can they protect any property unless it is receiving Federal money of some sort. I don’t remember the specifics but I looked it up. Permits on the other hand are issued at the local level according to state and local laws. This house would come under the state and local laws regarding historic homes. That doesn’t mean the house cannot be bastardized as often those laws only pertain to the exterior. That doesn’t mean a house can’t be gutted for parts nor can it be protected from exactly that. As long as the house remains structurally sound and the exterior is not changed, often the local and state historic preservation guidelines won’t protect a house. Not even one on the National Register.
A house is not a car. While it might be foolish not to have insurance, if you own your home outright, you are not required to have it if it is just your personal residence. You need it if you have a mortgage and might if you are running some sort or business.
Nice misdirection though. Can’t wait for the next installment.
They were very familiar with 224 E. 6th. They even stated that it was Avenue – not street. I will call once again Monday for clarification.
As for being wrong about the Roof I would state the following. I initially pulled a report from “Beacon” that specified the Roof, Repairs, Amounts expended, etc. What I did find from the report was that the Maintenance costs far exceeded the amounts someone posted/referenced on your blog which were only partial expenses. I even talked with the contractor who did the 2018 installation to verify what grade the comp roof was. Though I felt his bid was excessive I have found the contractors/inspectors in Emporia to be above board – honest, and do not feel they have mis represented anything nor have they made false statements to attempt to rip me off as someone stated on your blog.
As one contractor stated: “The Age of the roof has nothing to do with it needing replacement or not. This is Kansas. You could easily spend the $58K + to put on a NEW roof today and tomorrow it could be destroyed by high winds/hail and require you replace it tomorrow.”
Of course the city is familiar with Plumb Place. It’s the finest house in the city, and a block from City Hall.
And in my above comment I didn’t state that the address was 224 East Sixth Street.
You wrote this about the roof: “The Roof required Total Replacement at a horrendous cost”
A four-year-old roof? Which shows zero sign of damage? Which my photographs support? And with NO evidence of any water damage inside?
Les? Just stop.
I did not say you made that error Ross. That is correct you did not say street. When I called I used “Street” and they stated it was actually “Avenue”.