Pondering The Carriage House
With all the massive effort in getting the carriage house habitable in 2021…it is now vacant again.
Sigh.
Having the house mostly vacant for eight years has weighed heavily on me. This is my #1 BMD since buying the property in 2014 (BMD: bad management decision).
If I knew then what I know now I would have slapped the place together and rented it out. Because I did not I am permanently out, what, easily $80K?
Ouch.
These past few months I have been much pondering. And it seems that there are three options:
ONE: Ignore it. Focus on getting myself into the Cross House.
CONS: So, the carriage house would, again, sit dormant making no money for, what, another year? Or longer? The very thought makes me ill. And…this is vital…after I move into the big house, my current house will then become vacant. This means I will have TWO vacant houses. The very thought makes me ill. (NOTE: I have never considered the Cross House as vacant. While it is, I have always thought of it rather as a restoration project.)
TWO: Stop work on the big house and get the carriage house finished (about six months of work, for the interior only) and then rented.
CONS: This would delay moving into the big house…again. Really?
THREE: Get the carriage ready as an Airbnb. Humm, tantalizing. I would not actually have to finish the interior. It could remain largely AS IS. You know, kinda funky. Done right, this might work, right? For, what renters might not like on a month-to-month basis might be fine for a 2-day stay. I would have to do some things, of course, and furnish the house. The former is not a big deal, which means I could continue getting the big house ready to move in. And the latter would be…FUN! Ahhh, to decorate! Squee! I have a lot of furniture in storage, rugs, and drapery.
CONS: I cannot come up with a con to Option #3.
With the last option, I can continue working on the big house, mostly, all the while bit-by-bit getting the carriage house ready for guests. So, by the end of the year (maybe), I could be IN the big house, and start having paying guests IN the carriage house.
If all this goes according to plan, in 2023 my efforts would shift to my current house. I do not have the time or money to finish it for sale. But, I could also get it ready as an Airbnb. This would not be too much work. And, it is already furnished!
Importantly, with the carriage house, I would build in information. By this I mean that guests would find throughout the house detailed explanation and images, fixed to the walls, explaining the history of the structure, and the why X room looks as it currently does. I suspect that guests will be fascinated by this, and will enjoy seeing a work-in-progress.
The room you are standing in was, in 1894, a place for horse-drawn carriages…
It will be vital for the house to be immaculately clean, with windows gleaming and appliances and bathrooms fittings, too. And, with fabulous towels and linens. Of course, dahlink!
The living room is huge. Looking east. I will paint the plywood floor and lay down a large, over-the-top rug. Remember the dramatic curved sofa in the parlor of the if house? I have a matching one in the Receiving Room. I will haul it into this room. I will need to find a very large round coffee table. Over, I will hang a large chandelier, possibly…
…this. I have this listed for sale, a circa-1955 Hollywood Regency chandelier. But, until it sells, it might look good in the living room, a dramatic contrast to the unfinished ceiling.
Looking east. I will install the restored small window to the left.
The dining room is kinda ready to go. Looking south. I have a great Mid-Century Modern dining set I can place here, with a hipster Candice Olson chandelier I actually purchased for the room years ago. I have a rug and drapes. I will paint the plywood floor. (Cody will soon be taking his sofa.)
Save for repairing the hole in the ceiling, I will not do much to the kitchen.
I also do not need to do much to the Secret Bedroom. Looking south.
Looking NW. The restored window sashes will soon be back in place.
I will have the floor and stair treads refinished.
Damage like this will remain, but with an explanation.
The SW bedroom is in good order. Looking east. I do not like the bed but it was given to me.
Looking SW. The floor is newly done.
The east bedroom. I will remove the photo station, and keep the newly exposed bead-board walls AS IS. I will have the oak floor refinished.
The turret bedroom. Down the road this will be the spa bathroom for a master suite. For now, it will be a bedroom. The floor has been sanded. I will have Justin finish the work. The walls will remain AS IS for now. The ceiling fan…oh, the horror…will be removed.
The large north bedroom, looking north. I will have the floor refinished. The walls are in good order, mostly.
Looking south to the bed wall.
Looking east into the former main bathroom. This will be a walk-in closet. The HAVC unit is brand new in this location. It was in the attic, and this work is current.
The house will have five bedrooms and two full baths. And a washer/dryer. I will install the large deck off the kitchen.
The HVAC has all been $$$$ upgraded, and all the plumbing and electrical is new.
Once ready for guests, it will be unlike most other Airbnbs but will be spacious, funky, and rich with explained history. I think guests will love it. I hope!
Bit by bit as the years pass I can finish projects and eventually the house will get completed. But, will it lose something kinda weird and cool in the process? So…maybe…if my guests react well to the funkiness I might focus on restoring the exterior and leave the interior AS IS for many years to come.
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I hadn’t realized until this post with a full collection of carriage house photos that it’s so BIG.
Plan 3 is fascinating for its educational aspect as much as for the potential financial relief that will allow for faster work on your big dream. Seems like a certain type of guest would dig it and you could give them personal tours of the Cross House as another incentive.
Sounds like you’ve figured out how to get your ducklings in a row!
Like Kate R. said, I also didn’t realize just how big the Carrige house is. If I ever was in Kansas, I would definitely stay and find it fascinating!
Maybe cover sensitive areas with clear Plexiglass to prevent further damage but still allow the bones and current state to show?
I love the idea of having someone in the Carrige house and have always thought , when reading your blogs how said it was sitting empty for so long. As well as the loss of potential income. Install a wavier and damage fee in your listing for sure! It may also be a place to display some of your lightning for sale? People staying that are into old houses, may be in the market for old lights too.
Instagram is a powerful tool to list the Carrige house alongside Airbnb, as it is a very special and unique character in it’s own right. The Carrige house is so interesting, with its additions, moving rotation, and its former life.
Team Plan C all the way. Major plus if it gets Ross, Cats and fish pond in the Cross house!!
How long, with schedules of work, would it be before you could get it up and running?
Another vote for Option 3. And seconding LS’s suggestion to possibly display The Old Above’s products in the Carriage House..
Wow, Ross! That would be an interesting AirBNB that I would probably stay in.
I never realized until now, but I love the doorknobs in that one downstairs bedroom…. they’re hexagonal! The leaded glass, the diamond pane windows, the wonderful kitchen and stairhall…
All so many details which will make this a truly special airBNB for some lucky guests. Good luck Ross we are all excited to see what you come up with for these rooms moving forward.
Also, do you plan on selling the house you currently inhabiting? Or will it become a rental?
Ross, have you thought about you movingointo the carriage house, That would save on the high price of gasoline and you could also save all the drive time spent on the road, which would give you more time for your lightening business. Just a thought. Then sell your current house or rent it.
Hi, Annie!
Having me in one place, and all my lights 20 miles away, is unworkable!
You said the carriage house is big, isn’t there room for you lights, so everything is in one place.
Hi Ross, well, I’m probably the minority again, but I think you need to do option 2. The carriage house needs to be finished and rented to a long term tenant. You will have a steady income, and one less problem, unless their bad tenants.
You don’t have the time or money to deal with 3 unfinished houses. Unfortunately you won’t be able to finish the carriage house to your dreams, but that is what the Cross house is for. Renters, want a nice, clean space, they are not worried about the history etc. Things get broken, scratched, and ruined. That’s why the basic materials are used.
Finish the inside of the carriage house tastefully, work on the outside of it when time permits, and commence working on the Cross house, 100 percent, when the Carriage house is finished.
I’m sure the cats are in no hurry to move..lol. Just my opinion, but it seems more would be accomplished if you concentrated on one project at a time. Either way, your still doing a great job !!
Hi, Scott!
I don’t have the funds or time to finish the carriage house to attract a long-term rental tenant.
Also, short-term renters (Airbnb) ARE ok with unfinished spaces, as evidenced by Château de Gudanes. The Château offered wildly unrestored rooms for short-term rent…and did quite well in the process.
You are also underestimating the draw of glamour, baby! GLAMOUR! Sexy, sells!
Please, PLEASE don’t take this wrong. I mean no insult.
But Château de Gudanes is a Chateau in the south of France and the Carriage House is in Emporia, Kansas.
What is your competition in comparative Air BNB rentals? Are there a lot in the area? What condition are they in and can you compete? What do they charge and can you undercharge them and still make money? Would AirBNB be seasonal with stretches of being empty and would that compensate for the steady income of a long term rental?
You might get a tenant willing to work on the Carriage House in return for reduced rent. Terms in the contract could specify work according to your specifications and under your supervision. Same goes for your current house if it needs work. Oftentimes a tenant that will work to improve the property in return for a reduced rent can be more reliable than a regular renter or short term AirBnB.
Dear Mary,
For my whole life I’ve done things outside the norm. And have been, mostly, successful as such.
In the fall on 1978, I moved to NYC with no contacts, $200 to my name, and no education. EVERYBODY said I would fail. “Are you crazy? You’ll never get anywhere! It’s the toughest city in America!”
In early 1985, I founded my own architectural design business. Donald Trump was a client. And for the next few years I minted money.
In the late 1980s. I wanted to write a book about steam yachts of the late 19th- and early 20th-centuries. EVERYBODY told me getting a book published was next-to-impossible. One day though, while reading the intro of a new book on modern yachts, I came across this line: “We would like to thank our editor, Jim Mairs, for giving us the idea of doing a book on classic yachts, but we decided to do modern yachts instead.”
My eyes bugged out. I put the book down, grabbed the telephone book, found the publisher, and called. I sooooooo did not expect to be put through to said editor. I responded to the person who answered the phone with: “Ahhhh, Mr. Mairs, please?”
“One moment.”
A gruff voice: “Hello?”
Me, nervous: “I was hoping to be connected to Mr. Mairs.”
“Speaking.”
My knees almost gave way. I had NOT expected this.
I met him the next day. And he published my TWO books on classic yachts.
When my life fell apart in the 1990s, I made a highly absurd move to rural Kansas and created an entirely new life.
When the economy collapsed in 2008, my new lighting business seemed in trouble. Fuck! Fuck! My solution? To raise prices! To increase my buying budget to acquire higher-quality lighting. Madness! But then…my masterstroke…to add free shipping.
Sales boomed.
In short, I don’t need T’s crossed and I’s dotted before embarking on a new adventure. Like buying the Cross House. Madness! Utter madness!
So, doing the carriage house as a funky Airbnb is, yes, new territory. I’ve no idea if it will work or not. But I will never pay any attention to what other such rentals are doing because what I will do will be no comparison. There will be nothing in town like the carriage house. It will be unique when I’m done.
And, it will not be cheap.
NOTE: I know a half-dozen people who run Airbnb’s. They rave about the experience.
I got burned badly the first time I booked an overnight stay in an AirBnB. The people basically double booked the suite with private bath and when I arrived they stuck me in a tiny room without even WiFi, but charged me full rate ($175 for a 10×10 room) and then said they’d make it up by offering me one night’s free stay the next time. As if. It took months of complaints to AirBNB customer service to get a partial refund. I’m sure the people you know are decent, ethical people. My host was not and I won’t take a chance again. Did not have a good experience in Verona, Italy either and that was through a different BnB type service but nothing as bad as Apple Valley, California. Unfortunately there was no hotel to go to which was why I was forced to stay in this AirBnB sham. From now on I will stay in hotels or BNBs run on their own, not through Air BnB.
I think the funkiness might work better in Europe. I’m also not sure how the state and local laws work for this sort of thing if the house has big holes in the wall. Some sorts of permits or licenses might be required and there also might be inspections. It may be a public health issue and you may not get a permit or whatever is needed to do an Air BnB. I know locally they were going to outlaw all short term rentals because of some problems with those that were booking them. Massively over capacity and loud parties disturbing neighbors and such.
There is also the issue of damage if you are going to use some of your vintage things.
On the upside, you can also put price tags on a lot of the furnishings and fixtures and offer them for sale as an added revenue stream.
I just worry that the running will suck up both time and money and you won’t get the added income you expect to finish anything. That doing this will just delay anything getting done. It’s been 8 years, another year isn’t going to make all that much of a difference. Get moved into the Cross House, get your current house rented long term. You don’t want to be going over there every few days to change the linens and towels. Then you can work on the carriage house at your leisure. Give yourself a year to 18 months to get it up and running. once it is, you can plan on doing work on it during the “off season” when it isn’t being booked. Then you can concentrate on the Cross House. I would just do the math to make sure that even with a management company you’ll end up with some profit rather than in the hole. I’d also make a long term plan with increments of finished work and approximate time lines, then revisit the balance of income and expenses for the AirBnB for your house and Carriage House as opposed to long term rental.
In case you haven’t guessed, I am a planner. I do the research and analysis before I do anything. I take things cautiously and anticipate as much as I can with plans to remediate surprises.
I’ve looked at the $200-$500 a night AirBnB offerings for Emporia.
The Gufler Mansion looks very nice.
I don’t agree how you have portrayed tenants. Not all tenants live like this, and quite frankly I think everyone underestimates how degrading it is to have to RENT an apartment. As a renter I do indeed care about history and where I stay, but I would be much happier if I wasn’t eternally liable to some landlord, who may be lenient- or as troublesome as the law allows. I have also seen many a landlord break laws and get away relatively scott-free. While I respect your opinion about Option 2, please don’t misrepresent or slander people that have to rent. Thank you.
Lol. Your right, I guess I’m old fashion!!
Since your house is livable, move to the Carriage house, rent yours however it suits you. Then you are there to work on both as you feel like.
I’m with Dan. I think you (and the cats) moving into the carriage house is a great idea – finish the cat fence, get your business and the cats moved, and be all in one place. Rentals, whether AirBnB or otherwise, come with their own set of headaches for hosts/landlords. You do not want to be living in your house and having to deal with a crisis in the carriage house in the middle of the night. I’ve rented enough AirBnB places to know that there are always things that come up – and not all renters are considerate. I’d sell your current place. It’s a sellers’ market right now.
Karen, with the cat fence done, and my lights moved into the big house, there’d be no need to move into the carriage house.
I’d move into the big house!
Well, there you are! My main point was that being an AirBnB host living twenty miles away from the rental (whether it’s the carriage house or your current house) is not without problems. If you and the cats and the business can move to the big house, all the better; then you’d be on site to rent the carriage house as an AirBnB. Just please consider there are really some “cons” to being twenty miles away from a rental property, especially a short-term one.
Hi again, Karen!
When my house is ready as an Airbnb, I will not manage it.
There is a local couple who manage a bunch of Airbnb rental houses. I will retain them.
That’s good, but if you’re living in your current house and listing the carriage house as an AirBnB, you’ll still be twenty miles away unless you have someone nearby there to manage it.
My moving into the big house, and having the carriage house open as an Airbnb will happen about the same time.
I will also not manage that Airbnb.
If you make the carriage house into an AirBnB, then people who come to Emporia to tour the Cross House can stay there, and would probably really want to as well.
What a fantastic idea!! This Air bnb will be so unique and draw in those interested in restoration and just history in general. I salute your imaginative and adaptable nature, Ross, that is what insures the overall project its sure success! Your excitement in getting to the decorating part is contagious! You GO with your bad self!!
A couple nights in an historic, project-in-progress home, near a snazzy social club, in a chock-full-of-history small town. It could become part of a sweet little “Flint Hills History Tour”. Pop it into a pamphlet including events & local landmarks – The Gazette, All Vets Memorial, Redrocks, Cottonwood Falls, etc.,. Other area B&Bs might want in on that kind of advertising – ya think? 😉
Of course, any of that would be well down the road but, continued prioritizing for immediate needs could eventually get you down that road.
It feels as if plans may be taking shape – certain ideas feel right, others not so much. GO Ross! Just keep steady & don’t get ahead of yourself – no cartwheels. For now, your own best words 💜 baby steps.
Thank you, Kim!
Is it an option to finish the basement and cat fence at the CH.
Move out and rent out your current home as a long term rental.
Then you can move into the CH and finish work on the coach house. All from the same location!
Not having to commute from your current address would save time and gas.
Just a thought.
Peter, there are a number of projects that need to be done at the big house before I can move in. I don’t anticipate a move-in date until late in the year.
So, I need to say put in my current house.
Meanwhile, I can also get the carriage house ready as an Airbnb.
Do you need to have 5 bedrooms ready before starting the Airbnb effort? The downstairs and a bedroom or two upstairs would be a good start. And you probably need to prioritize the 2nd (upstairs) bath—with guests for 2 or more bedrooms, you need the additional bathroom accommodations.
I’m just thinking that many guest reservations may be for 1 – 4 people and that means you could have the carriage house ready for business (and maybe with a smaller investment) sooner. Love these ideas for the Cross Carriage House!
Option #3 the Airbnb guests in the Carriage House, while awaiting usage as a rental with longer tenancies.
Once that’s accomplished and Carriage House is functioning as an income generating entity, then the wonderful plan of focusing on the Cross House.
I cannot wait until you post of your imminent plans and moving to the Cross House.
Then…prep of Strong City house for sale!
I love any option that gets you closer to living in the Cross House and results in income. Go for it!
I agree with 3. Also didn’t realize it was so big! Excitement!!!!!! 🙂
All three options have their pros and cons.
I have to wonder how much demand there would be for your unfinished Carriage House on Air BNB when there are other alternatives in Emporia for, yes, more money but also in much better condition. Even with the rest of the house displaying some history in progress, the kitchen needs to be in much better shape and the bathrooms even better than that. Shabby Chic is fine for the livng and sleeping areas but the kitchen/dining and bathrooms need to be pristine. Will doing half measures now and then having to do it again later be worth it?
The renters situation is also 50/50 but I feel you have better control and have better chances with a long term tenant than a series of short term ones.
I have my own issues with Air BNB, which I will NEVER do again, but that is a whole other story. I absolutely will stay at Bed and Breakfasts but absolutely will NOT do AirBNB.
I think you are just losing some steam and the “senior year slump” has set it.
If I were to choose, I would say get the basement finished, your lights all moved, the cat fence finished and then move into the Cross House. Then flip a coin as to which property you can get ready for rental first, your house or the Carriage House. (I’m guessing the house.) Then get it done and rented for income. Once rented, turn your attention to getting the other fixed up and rented. For the Carriage House I would say no half ass quickie fixes that have to be redone later but do it right the first time. Not only does that save time but the better the finishes and condition, the more you can charge.
Once both of them are rented long term, that is reliable income you can include in a budget. You can’t do that with an AirBNB because you never know when and for how long it would be rented, so that is unreliable income.
With both properties rented long term you can then turn your attention and some of that extra income to getting the Cross House done the way you want the first time. While living in a construction zone isn’t ideal you will not have the commute and you will better be able to prioritize what to do next.
Big believer in doing it right the first time because my own experience has been once it is half ass functional, it tends to stay that way for far longer than it should.
You also need to consider how old you are and how much longer you plan on working until you move into the Cross House. Do you want to move in before you’re 70? 75? 80? If money is an issue then you need those two properties rented for as much as possible and long term for a steady stream of income to pay for finishing the Cross House.
That’s my opinion but I’m sure you’ve already made your decision.
Hi Ross
I love Idea #3.
We are driving to visit my husband’s family in MO this summer and it’s only about 5 hours from you I think. (St Louis)
I have been saying I want to go see you in Emporia!
Not sure if we can find an extra day (he hasn’t seen his daughter in St Louis in 2 years) but I would love to visit you and Cross House and stay in the Carriage House AirBnB. I think it’s a great idea, especially the glamour and history. I love a high/low mix and it seem that will be the decor theme for a while.
And St Louis is almost Kansas when traveling from NY, lol.
Fingers crossed! And good luck!
Ross, Option one because I have no confidence that you can use the carriage house as a short term rental without continually being distracted by it and/or throwing cash at it.
Focus on the main house, move into it and then either sell or rent your current house. Only then, should you ponder what to do with the carriage house. Personally, I wouldn’t do anything that isn’t a step towards a lasting improvement.
No, I don’t think anyone of decent quality wants to stay short term in the carriage house as it is. You’re inviting problems and then you’ll be complaining about the issues here. There’s no shame in owning a vacant house. If you insist on renting it, take a long hard look at the costs of repairs vs anticipated income and then have someone not emotionally attached look at the plans to verify.
We often want so badly for our plans to work that we often craft narratives that support our desires.
That being said, do what you wish to the big house because that’s your home and your office. Once you’ve moved in and either sold or rented your other home, consider the needs of the carriage house.
Hi, Travis!
IMPORTANT POINTS:
1) In my post I wrote that do not have the time/money to finish my current house so it can sold. I can though perhaps get it ready as an Airbnb. So, rather remain empty for years, it could produce income.
2) The same goes for the carriage house in terms of taking in a long-term tenant. I don’t have the time/money to FINISH the structure. So, as I wrote, what will be untenable for a long-term tenant may not matter to short-term guests.
3) It’s been painful having the carriage house empty for EIGHT YEARS. This heavily weighs on me, and the idea of it remaining empty for another few years is unthinkable. It’s not about shame.
4) It’s not true that Airbnb guests don’t like funky and unusual spaces. In fact, the opposite is true. This has also been proven by the Landmarks Trust in the UK which has no trouble renting wildly odd places which would not actually be livable long-term.
Get your house able to be rented or short term rental as soon as you move.
I’d still leave the carriage house vacant until you do what you want to it.
You’re like me and possess little restraint to not dig a big financial hole.
I find I need time just to solidify what I want. I lived in my house for 5 years before I finally furnished the dining room. It’s on its third iteration now and this one is sticking. Same with the yard. I’ve been working on it piece by piece since I moved in 30 years ago. I’ve finally decided on the last bit and a change for the front yard. Now I’m just waiting for the weather to cooperate and to have enough money to get it done. Then I can finally just maintain it rather than keep changing it. Sometimes you have to live with something for a while before you decide what you want, then after living with it you decide it isn’t working and change it. The only thing I don’t do is quick fixes and patches because I find that is just money down the drain. That is why I think moving into the Cross House, renting or even selling the current house and then taking some time with the Carriage House is cost effective and efficient.
But I don’t live in Emporia, don’t own a business and am very different from Ross.
I probably would have done the Carriage House first and then moved into it, rented out my own house out and then been working on the Cross House. But there are no time machines and you can’t go back and change paths. It is what it is now, and there are three roads diverging in the woods, making the decision on which path to take more difficult.
But I think Ross has already decided on his path.
I think it’s time for all of us that support Ross to do just that. He has a gofundme account. Maybe if we can get enough donated he can get the Carriage house or his house done and start having income from one of the properties.
I challenge all readers and commenters to give what they can. Thank you!!
Excellent post, Dan. Each donation helps.
Hi Ross (long time reader, first time commenter) –
I think your Airbnb idea is great. My wife and I have a couple long term rentals and had a couple Airbnb’s – and they were ALWAYS booked – and we live in a small town outside of Philly – I honestly didn’t think we’d get any renters but people use Airbnb for more then just vacations – lots of graduations, family reunions, concerts, college visits, job searches, even a couple people recuperating from surgeries, etc. And we made way more money with Airbnb then we did with long-term rentals – lots of changing of sheets though.
I also know when we look for Airbnbs we always look for something a little different or unusual.
I just hope we have a reason to visit Kansas and can rent the carriage house someday!
Thank you, Kristin!
And, nice to meet you!
So many opinions…but then, that’s what you asked for 😉 I find #3 intriguing…I don’t have any experience with AirBnBs, and not likely to…my wife and I had a crazy-bad experience with a B&B several years ago and now she is a 100% hotel person. I would like to stay in a house such as the Carriage House, and I do believe that it could work; one thing that you should check into before you make any concrete plans is the issue of liability insurance and local licenses/permits. I’m sure that Emporia is like most cities, and any structure that operates as a B&B must be inspected and meet building codes; insurance companies may also get involved, so the unfinished condition of the Carriage House could possibly be a problem for them. Hopefully if there are any items that have to be remedied they will not be too costly…
Err.. I’ve missed something here…. What happened to Cody?
Hi, Jordon! Cody left in March.
Hi Ross, I’ve been following your site almost 5 years, made a few silly comments a few years back, but now just read and try to learn something. In October of 2017 my husband and I bought an 1890 simple farmhouse in Fort Gibson Ok and spent four years restoring it, it went on Airbnb last October. You are correct in that people love something different and interesting! Most people come to our town for weddings, visiting family, funerals and such. When I ask why they booked our place the usual response is, we could have stayed anywhere but we saw your listing and wanted something different. I love the idea of glamorous design in an unfinished place and I think many other folks will also! Good luck and I can’t wait to see it!
Wait, a photo station?!? I’d love to hear the who/what/why/when on that one! I never realized how HUGE the carriage house was either – amazing.
Hi Ross,
I’m totally an Airbnb person, especially old houses. The bedroom with the unfinished pink/green paint is to die for. I want to plan a one night stay end of September, finished or unfinished. That’s my vote. Can’t wait!!