Torn Between Approaches
Deep in the basement of the 1894 Cross House is something remarkable: the only remaining 1950s Mouse Palace Motel bathroom in the entire universe.
After the upper floors were converted to a motel in 1950s, Scott Mouse, Jr. converted the basement into six more motel rooms, each with a bathroom. Pink, of course.
After Bob Rodak purchased the boarded-up house in 1998, he removed all the Palace bathrooms…save one.
The floor tiles, toilet, sink, tub, and sink light (not shown) are original. I added new Pex lines to the toilet and sink in 2014. The walls…
…had pink plastic tiles, surround with dark purple plastic trim. This image is of another former bathroom.
The floor tiles have distinctive green racing stripes (there is a second stripe to the right, not shown). While the tub looks to be in great shape, its bottom is laced with cracks to the porcelain and rust markings.
The tub fittings appear to be in good condition and I think, once cleaned, will look OK. One escutcheon is missing. These are easily found.
The original TP built-in holder is in excellent condition!
The distinctive sink fittings are in poor condition. The chrome is pitted, and the handles skewed. Oh, the horrror. Bathroom Machineries can restore these to As New condition for, gulp, $800. Or, I could replace these with sorta kinda matching fittings for about $250. I also want to have the sink reglazed. This is not recommended for a kitchen sink (due to heavy usage) but this Palace sink would only be used occasionally.
I love love love love the idea of restoring the only remaining Mouse Place Motel bathroom in the entire universe.
But this romantic ideal is, of late, conflicting with reality. I hate when that happens.
THE PROBLEMS
In order to save the bathroom I have to destroy it. Literally.
When built in the early 1950s, its was destined to fail. For, its north wall is a 1894 brick structural support. This was plastered over, and then plastic tiles were affixed. This would have, from day one, started to fail as the brick absorbs water from the ground under the basement and causes the mortar to leach out…and, thus, causing the plastic tiles to fall off.
This is bad.
And the west wall is the original stone exterior foundation. Ditto with water and leaching and falling tiles.
This is bad.
Simply put, the bathroom should never have touched the 1894 foundations walls.
So, to save the bathroom it needs to be entirely removed, and a new north and west wall built separated by a half-inch from the original foundation walls.
Following all this?
This means that the bathroom would have to be rebuilt slightly to the south and slightly to the east of its current location. All four new walls would be pressure-treated lumber, and with cement board over.
Justin said he could install an ‘offset’ drain for the toilet and tub.
The original tile flooring could then be reinstalled, as with the original toilet, restored sink, tub, and light fixture. I have no intention of installing plastic tiles but would instead purchase pink ceramic tiles and dark purple ceramic trim. Yes, dahlink, I have standards!
I even have the original towel bar and would delight in hanging pink cotton towels from it.
So, yea, wow cool.
But…
WHAT IF?
The newly installed slop sink in the workroom.
The seemingly minor installation has had a huge impact on me. While the porcelain on cast-iron sink top is vintage, the cabinet (and its hardware) are new and ‘hip’ as is the new mirror.
And I cannot express how much joy this is bringing me. While the room is raw, and will remain as such, the shimmering new sink installation transforms the room. And my mood.
As such, this has made me rethink the only remaining 1950s Mouse Palace Motel bathroom in the entire universe.
Now, I am rethinking my plans for the bathroom.
- I do not need a tub.
- I hate the 1950s toilet. It has a ‘standard’ bowl while I have long only installed ‘elongated’ bowl toilets. All men will appreciate the difference when sitting.
- I am unsure that I can restore the 1950s floor tiles to As New condition.
- I am reluctant to spend $800 to restore the sink faucets.
- I dislike how tiny the sink is, and that it has no counter-space.
WHAT DO I NEED?
The bathroom will serve two purposes:
- Offer me a place to pee while using the workroom. To this end I do not actually need to do a thing to the bathroom as it is.
- Offer my guests a bathroom while enjoying the adjacent home theater in the basement round room. To this end I will want a better bathroom
By getting rid of the tub, I could install a 48-inch wide sink cabinet. I would love this.
By getting rid of the toilet, I could install a much more comfortable elongated toilet. While I have never ‘sat’ on this toilet, future guests will. I would like to maximize their comfort.
By getting rid of the floor tiles, I could install a heated sub-floor with hip ceramic tiles.
WHAT TO DO????????
By abandoning the romantic ideal of restoring the Palace bathroom, I could have a bathroom that works better for my needs.
I am also highly drawn to the idea of the unexpected: a highly stylish modern bathroom in the basement.
Yet…restoring the Palace bathroom is also mighty seductive.
At the moment I am torn 50/50 between these opposing approaches. If I did not have to destroy the Palace bathroom in order to save it, I would…of course…default to saving it.
Oh…oh…oh…what to do? What to do?
What, dear readers, do you think?
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That is definitely a predicament. Since you have to do a complete do over I would opt for modern convenience and comfort.
Me, too!
Me too.
Is there perhaps a way that you could style the modern bathroom to look like or mimic a 1950s bathroom? It could then have the modern comforts and convenience for future guests but still have the charm of the 1950s that you desire. A compromise for this predicament maybe?
or at least use the Mouse Hotel colour palette, but with the more modern fittings?
Hmmmm….
Do you have suitable existing plumbing runs and drains that would allow you to put a modern half-bath in another location in the basement? And enough space in the basement to have a new bathroom and keep the old one, as-is, as a time capsule? Perhaps you could collect enough plastic tiles and other remnants to show what would have been on the walls, and to give a future owner the option to restore an original Palace Motel bathroom. You might even find yourself wishing someday that you had another project….
It pains me when any vintage tub is removed. The modern ones are awful. They aren’t big or deep enough and I really hate fiberglass. Nothing beats a porcelain on cast iron tub that you can really soak in. Plus, you never know when you are either going to get so dirty you’d want a quick shower or you might need that tub to wash or soak something you are working on.
That said….is there any way to restore the Mouse bathroom and then add a modern half bath anywhere? I suppose no place to add a toilet stall next the the lovely salvaged sink with a view. Which would cost less? Adding a quick, modern half bath or restoring the Mouse bathroom enough for guests?
I’m a kinda more is more person and two bathrooms always trumps one, be it a restored vintage or an added modern.
Oh, yeah, and ceramic tiles are definitely the way to go. I had some sort of imitation tile laminate stuff on the walls of my bathroom and kitchen. That went and I put ceramic tile up the walls to the chair rail in both rooms. It wasn’t original to the house but part of the 1949 remodel so I had no hesitation in scraping it. Man I would have loved it if I had the original 1922 bathroom. It might have been a clawfoot tub or some really awesome tiles. Have no idea what the original kitchen looked like either.
Put in a new bathroom, minus tub, still go with pink and purple tiles. A modern half bath in the basement will not hurt the historical narrative.
How is that “Move In” to-do list coming??
I’d go with the modern bathroom and have fun with it. While I can see the nostalgia of the “Mouse” bathroom, there really isn’t anything pretty about 1950s stuff in an 1894 house (and I’m not a ’50s house parts fan anyway).
Build the bathroom modern with no tub. Install the original towel bar. Hang a picture of an original mouse bathroom over the towel bar😁
You have the pictures for the history. Let that bathroom rest in peace.
I am the Debbie Downer.
I have no issue with nixxing the 1950 bathroom. Get out of the basement. And return to the living space on the first and 2nd floors. All this flitting from different projects is making me feel scattered.
I am itching MORE to see the ceilings reinstated on the first and 2nd floors and the wall plastering finished.
The basement can wait except for getting it cleaned up for the lighting business needs.
Other than that I would be high tailing it back upstairs.
Said with ” gentle effect”🤗
Linda, I’m focused on the basement because it needs to be done before I move in.
I need all the wiring done and all the plumbing done and all the carpentry done before I can fill the basement with my vintage lights. Construction work and delicate vintage lights don’t mix.
I was about to post the same sentiments, thinking: Surely there must be approximately 5,280 more pressing projects in the main living areas that Ross should be focusing on in order for him to (finally) move in and begin enjoying the house! Seeing his reply, I understand that construction work and delicate vintage lights don’t mix, but it still seems low on the priority list. Given all that, the only reasonable option is the most expedient one, which is probably to rip out the Palace bathroom and install something new.
Hi, Brian!
As I wrote, doing anything with the bathroom will require that it be demolished first. It was built wrong from day one.
This work just isn’t possible after my delicate vintage lights are filling the basement. This would be like letting a bull into a china shop.
Bad!
Modern. You have done a beautiful job sticking to the original everywhere else but in this case it’s not worth putting your money and effort into attempting to restore it since honestly it’s one of those projects that is likely to be more troublesome than it’s worth since it doesn’t get used much.
I vote for a bathroom that will provide comfort and convenience while you’re working downstairs, and that will work for your guests when you have company in your basement.
I do like the idea of creating something that memorializes the Mouse bathrooms. Sharon’s idea of a photo is a good one. Maybe take some of the remaining tile and create a fun picture frame from the plastic tiles, or an art piece?
Always love to hear your thought process as you work through your renovation questions. Looking forward (as always) to seeing how the final project turns out. If it’s as glam as the world’s most glamorous slop sink, it will be fabulous.
Ross I think the thing to do is to put in a modern bath with a nod to the 1950’s and call it a day. My house is entirely Mid Century, I love it, and if you want to go that route I’m sure that RetroRenovation.com can give you inspiration and sources. But what about giving it a 1950’s movie theater vibe to go with the theater room? Getting rid of the tub is a great idea…. You could use some of that space to put in some shallow cabinetry as additional small-item storage.
A replica bathroom would always be just that: a replica. I would build a new bathroom in the spirit of the old one, but one which better serves your needs today. A urinal, for example, would be much handier than a bathtub. Then, I would hang a photo (or photos) of the original bathroom in the space as a tribute to the Mouse years.
I also think this is the best route. You can pay homage to something without restoring it completely, and the older materials can be put to new use. Even if you don’t want to spend 850$ on the chrome, someone at a salvage center may and it may be just what they need. Part with what you don’t want to keep, make some art and homage with what remains, and build it back better to suit you in the basement is my take.
In my humble opinion, I’d remove it and install what you want. It’s not original to when the house was built, which appears to be a guiding light in many of your decisions, though I can see the attraction of it being the last Mouse Palace bath. Maybe blend the two lines of thought…reuse the towel bar, lights, even have the hardware redone at that scary price. Also reuse the color scheme in ceramic wall tiles and floor tiles, if they can be used with sub-floor heating. Treat it as a “wink” to the Mouse Palace bath, but not a faithful recreation since the original execution was so flawed anyway. Whatever you choose, I know it will be fabulous as that appears to be the kind of guy you are! Hope you have tons of fun with it!
I do love the Hall-Mack chrome recessed accessories and hope to score some for when it’s time to give my own mid-century modest bathrooms some love. My vote is for preserving the bits you you like and are in good shape (like the TP holder), then going in the direction that will best suit your current situation.
I might feel differently if the 50’s bathroom had been particularly well-executed or maintained, but (in my opinion) the plastic tiles directly on the wall indicate it was built to be somewhat disposable.
I’m still amazed that people would stay in a hotel named The Mouse Palace! I don’t think I’d be that brave.
Long time reader – one time donator and first time commenter.
I agree with those that have said, demo the bathroom and reuse what you can and want to create a modern spec bathroom that suits your needs and honors the motel period of the house. A unused impractical heirloom serves no purpose other than sitting as a museum item… Another alternative would be to reuse these as in a above grade bathroom that would see greater use…
Being a mid century nut, I would keep the sink and the tub and move the bathroom to wherever you want it to be. Reglaze the sink and tub black, get new fixtures, new pink and black tile, new floor…forget the asbestos, it’s not attractive anyway. This way you have a very cool, high quality mid century pink and black bathroom that tips it’s hat to the past, but isn’t old and ratty…or ugly lol.
I would be more on-side with restoring the bathroom if it were in better condition, or if a 1950’s full bath were your dream scenario. As it is, you’re really just faced with putting a tonne of effort into a not-that-original not-that-functional bathroom where the parts that ARE original kind of suck.
I think you should save what you can and go with comfort. I like the idea of keeping the tub – adding a shower in case you do get dirty and want to take a quick shower. Everything else you’ve done is period correct/as close as can be. You could give yourself permission to forgo not being true to the 50’s. But, I know, whatever you do, we’ll be impressed and delighted! Keep us posted! 🙂
That is quite a dilemma! I lean towards remaking the bathroom as the 1950’s version – it would be a fun nod to the Mouse Motel….But in the end, it is your house Ross and you should do what makes you go “Squeee!”
Have fun with whatever you do!
I think a 1950’s Mouse Palace “powder room.”
It would be a homage to Mouse🐭 Palace Motel. Especially if you use any of the salvageable parts. Maybe cool 1950’s wallpaper.
All you need in the basement would be a mirror, toilet & sink. It’s the basement, after all. It shouldn’t cost an arm and a leg.
I’d restore the vintage motel bathroom, if only to hang a framed poster from Psycho for the home theater guests! The gag just isn’t there without a shower.
Could the fixtures be relocated to any of the other five former bath locations? If plumbing is already roughed in elsewhere without all the basement wall issues, seems like a win. If not, a 50’s 54″ tub might be the ticket to not have to move the plumbing and buy you space for the new walls.
I say let it go. As you would have to remove everything anyway to deal with your wall issue and it isn’t an original feature for the property on top of the practical requirement on not needing a full bathroom and the cost it wouldn’t make much sense for me. Keeping a record of the motel days with some documentary evidence photos at al, plus the reuse of the towel rail and toilet paper holder would more than suffice. If you felt the need to figure proof you could plumb for a shower and not install and tank the room and so could have a wet room if needed down the line. After all if it was a sub par 50s water heater would you be being so romantic and altering it makes it a faux version anyway.
I am voting with most of the commenters above; go with the modern bathroom that serves your needs. In keeping with your historic narrative, make it modern so that there is no question that it isn’t original to the Mouse Palace period; you can always keep the fixtures in storage in case you someday want to use them to recreate the 50s bathroom. I understand better than most the anxieties caused by timelines and budget-busting projects, so going with something that makes sense for your lifestyle now is a much better use of your time and money. Practical is better; the 50s bath is a luxury for later on when you are living there, and your money tree has had a chance to recover 🙂
It makes sense to me to preserve something that has historic significance to the building. BUT, building a similar thing just moved over a bit is not preserving it. rebuilding similar is not preserving it. Thus, in my opinion, preserving the last Mouse Palace bathroom is already not possible. (but you could re-use the sink and toilet and argue you have preserved pieces once used in the Mouse Palace hotel…). In conclusion then, build what suits the use you intend for the space. be sympathetic in style, hang pictures of what was (floor plans make amazing wall art), but remember that houses are built to be lived in and used.
Just my 2 cents.
Hi Ross,
If you are like me you have a tornado in your head at all times and future projects swirl in that tornado. For me it can last for some time till all the things line up and I’m ready to execute the project. We all know you are working on the move in list and jut tossing things around.
I would have to vote for going new bathroom keeping it in a 1950’s style and yes a picture of the original.
Your doing a lovely job on your home and I cant wait for the day that your grand foyer comes back to life!
Keep up the great work!
David
Go with new, but look for a 1890’s look cabinet for a sink vanity, and go with modern tile, set in a retro pattern. Wainscoting, wallpaper, antique mirror?
Of your thoughts, what jumps out most to me is your battle of need v.s. desire.
— The bathroom will serve two purposes:
1.}”Offer me a place to pee while using the workroom. To this end I do not actually need to do a thing to the bathroom as it is.”
2.) “Offer my guests a bathroom while enjoying the adjacent home theater in the basement round room. To this end I will want a better bathroom”
So……….for number 1…..what do you honestly “need” is it a place for Ross to pee while using the workspace? The workspace already has that glorious sink, so could a toilet be framed in nearby that sink just for basic need? Is the ability to use the eyesore of the original Mouse bathroom justification to keep it for nostalgia or could it be removed and just add a basic toilet near the workspace sink?
and………for number 2……what do you honestly “need” for the home theater? Would it truly necessitate a bathroom for the guests? In this huge house there are more bathrooms. If it is too difficult for guests to go up to the first floor for the bathroom than that seems to be a mega need for a bathroom. If that is the deciding factor than the bathroom requires more effort. If you are concerned about not doing construction after your lights are moved into the space than will your home theater need to be done prior as well or is it in a contained space which will not affect that?
Now….”desire” ……….You state……”The seemingly minor installation has had a huge impact on me.”…..and…
“And I cannot express how much joy this is bringing me” both in regard to that lovely sink in your workspace. Your obvious delight is unmistakable and it hones in on that sink. As one with such gifted design abilities you are taxed with either experiencing the joy of going with 1… need…primitive…. v.s. 2. gifted design. In going with 1 you save both time and money in your basement, thus moving your lighting business in and thus getting YOU moved in sooner. If you absolutely see the need for a bathroom for guests when using the home theater, then can you do this and forego the construction of a better bathroom when the theater is done? If the answer is no then that is your answer. The home theater dictates the bathroom. How much design are you concerned about for the home theater? If you wish you could do a really FUN retro cinema and thus the FUN “desire” design kick in of a retro 1950’s bathroom. The joy and delight you express could be easily gained for you in paying homage to the Mouse bathrooms with doing aforementioned suggestions of a framed photo with elements. If adding a guest bath for the theater dictates it all than do it but DO IT with your JOY of expression. The best of both worlds. You need to tell us more of the home theater……what? when? Before or after lighting is moved in. Either the guests can utilize your primitive toilet near your workspace (is it OH the Horror? lol) or they can traipse up one floor to utilize that bath OR you are stating the decision to do a decent bath so option 2……simple powder room or full blown psycho 50’s fun campy give you SQUEE satisfaction . Time vs money, need vs desire ALWAYS!!
Note….the addition of the primitive toilet was only if you were tearing out the Mouse bathroom, it was suggested as primitive with use of your workspace sink already there. Not sure if I clarified that. lol. Primitive number 1
Ross, be logical for once. It’s in poor condition, you don’t need a tub, the tub is in poor condition and you don’t like the toilet. I have three 1955 round bowl toilets and I fit fine.
Remove it all and create a restroom that works for you. List the vintage fixtures on Facebook Marketplace so someone might use them again.
I’m with you on this one Ross. Yes it’s not original to the house but it is part of the history of the house (the only part left from this era) . Yes it would be a lot of work to restore it but also a lot of work to renovate it. If I was ever lucky enough to cross the pond and visit your house I would be more than happy to use your 50’s bathroom. Wouldn’t be my favourite style in a house but all the history of this house fascinates me. Obviously when there’s treasures like the triple stained glass windows to uncover then it’s a no brainer. But whatever you decide I will be following with great interest
Long time reader, first time commenter:
It does sound more practical to go with a modern half bath, especially for both the purposes you particularly want to use it for. And your general aesthetic has been to either restore as original, or to make clearly modern with nods to the original. Given that, I would suggest a modern powder room, but memorialize The Mouse Hotel bathroom in one of two ways:
1) If you have a good picture of the original bathroom, that could make some fantastic (and on point) bathroom wall art 🙂
2) Is there a different bathroom in the house where you might consider moving the Mouse Hotel bathroom to? Since these bathrooms were on every floor during it’s hotel phase, this solution wouldn’t be untrue to the house, but it WOULD leave you space for your modern half bath in the basement while ALSO allowing you to have a fantabulous pink-tiled 1950s bathroom.
Ross,
Beware of those 1950’s vinyl and Linoleum tiles, they often were made with asbestos. If, after testing, they’re shown to contain asbestos, removal should be at the hands of an expert and they should be replaced with a modern flooring material. That being said, do you really need a tub in the basement? I’d think a shower stall at most would be logical, a place to scrub off any “oopsies” you may get on yourself while working without having to track the mess into your restored living spaces. Or would turning the basement bathroom into a pet washing room be more practical? I vote for taking pictures of what exists and rebuild it for your needs, not the needs of a no-longer-extant motel. Just a couple thoughts…
The answer is obvious. Put in the modern bathroom with modern comforts. Then hang photos of the Mouse Palace bathroom on the walls! Then vs now.